Much as I like hypothetical rig talk.. I prefer proper discussion.. the scorpion is a good example of the former..

Andy.. I bet our Joe is cringing...

What do you think guys??

..Che Sera Sera ..Whatever Will Be,Will Be.....
The Futures not ours to See ......Che Sera Sera.........

I think the waters I fish a nice sharp hook is the most important consideration. If they feed on your baited spot you catch em. If I was fishing gin clear pits with very spooky educated fish that examine every food item, I would have to put on the thinking cap. Why limp untill you have been kicked?
Keeping it simple, keeping it unobtrusive and keeping it very sharp.

Yes please!
I for one would appreciate a few diagrams from the rig specialists. I have messed around with quite a few but, it's not always easy to find acurate,clear) diagrammes about rigs that make sense. I'm sure there are plenty of books that feature them in UK but, not so easy down-under. Also I found that quite a few of the rigs I looked at/tried in the early days were pretty inefficiant at the job. I got the impression they caught more anglers than fish!
I now stick to 2 (3 at max) type of rigs for my carping and would like to explore more options for different circumstances, conditions, bait etc.
Diagrammes, explanations and any advice on set-up of rigs from experienced forum members who have tried and tested the rigs would be most helpful

Glad you pushed out the "tongues" posts Pete.You mentioned them to me early on in our corespondence that I should have a read, really helped my thought process re: feeding etc.and I'm sure others who also missed the posts will find it very interesting.

Regards
Kiwi Matt

Centrifugal force is the key

Do you mean the "untethered orbital space hook"? .....or maybe the "throat jammer"?
.....Err,thanks,but no thanks! .....

This post has been thought provoking in the extreme and I genuinely welcome the debate and points raised, especially the generic description of how a carp feeds.

However, it seems to me that the the common thread is that people are concentrating on a particular fish feeding pattern. I would agree that if you have a chance to study a particular fish in detail, including its preferred feeding spots/habits, it might be possible to design a rig to maximise pick up/hooking potential, but, and a very big but, the overwhelming majority do not approach a lake with that in mind. I would suggest that it is far more likely that an angler will fish a lake with the concept of getting any carp in the lake to:
a) Be attracted to the bait
b) Be tempted to sample it,
c) be hooked.

If the second approach is followed, then trying to design a rig to trap a particular fish on a particular occasion would be unrealistic, surely. Targetting a particular fish in a particular venue on a particular day does not take into account other fish's feeding habits, and would have to assume that all the fish in the lake are going to feed in one particular way.

In other words, would it not be better to design a rig which encapsulates as many generic problems as possible? The rig may not be as efficient for a particular fish, but would be more efficient across a range a fish/feeding responses, many of which are completely unknown by the angler on the bank, such as small differences in bottom make up in the area surrounding the bait, subsurface water currents or by water clarity at a particular depth etc.

Does anybody know of a lake where all the carp feed in exactly the same way? Bear in mind that they would have to be all the same body mass and body shape to be able to do it?

Maybe this is the reason why a number of anglers (including myself) tend to stick to one or two tried and tested rigs, which can used confidemtly across the enormous range of variables.

Just a thought!