Eh, up!
There were rumoured to be some carp in the 50-60lb range stocked near me in Norfolk last year. Obviously, imported fish, I don't no if with permission or not. If one of these was caught over the record weight and the bloke who caught it claimed the record should it be granted?
As far as I am concerned, it should. A carp is a carp and they soon wise up. What do you think, lads!

Er Paddy?

I am going to look forward to some of the replys on this one! I know there are some very strong views on this subject and I have a suspicion Paul S may well respond!

Personally, my feeling is that they are here, they are thriving and eventually it may be nigh on impossible to sort out which is which - native or not.

However, if there was more concern there would eventually be more controls - and that does not seem to be happening - a case of door...horse...bolted methinks.

But is is all sour grapes or is there a smattering of 'won't join the euro' perhaps. It will be good to see the reaction of the Euro carpers when the fishingwarehouse start the 'across the channel' area.

Steve

If as you suggest foreign imported carp are considered for the British record, any fishery owner could quite easily import a 60lb fish and the next day joe bloggs could turn up catch the fish and claim the record which is total cobblers as far as i see it.
Just to confuse matters even more, How do you prove if a fish is a foreign import
or not, I mean although some have been imported legally and their must be records for these, there are still alot that have come in illegally.

Hmmmm, this may put the cat amongst the pigeons so to speak.

Were carp not introduced into this country from abroad originally anyway ?

Were the original Redmire fish not imported from Belgium in the first instance ?

If a fish is moved from another country, lake or pond or river into another lake or pond or river does it then not become a resident of it`s envrioment ?

Chris S

Chris,
True enough mate BUT (and isn't there alway's a "but" with me?). Carp, though an introduced species and not indiginous to this country DO spawn successfully here and are therefore sorta considered to be "naturalised". The Redmire stock? True, imported from belgium or somewhere as fingerlings NOT as bloody great big huge things so they actually spent many many years in Redmire grubbing about and growing big. That's the difference you see? I reckon if we were buying stock fish from france at 8oz and they were growing to huge sizes in their new environment there wouldn't be an issue. The fact is, as you know that many of these imported (from wherever!) fish are already huge, I guess that many of them actually loose some of there weight once stocked especially if they're dumped in one of these bloody puddles.
You see Chris, the issue is not with importing, stocking or moving (legally of course) carp, it's with the stocking of carp that are already record breakers in this country.
Remember the Rainbow Trout fiaso? Can't remember the name of the place but the owner was regularly stocking the place with artificially hoime grown record fish...what a joke.....

Can I have a coffee now?

Simon N

With the trout thing, were there not 2 records 1 for wild fish (I think it was something like stocked more than 2 years ago) and one for artificially farmed fish

true, but the fish we now consider english have been residing in uk waters for decades and have spent most of their lives in uk waters.
I can't see how you can claim a british record for a fish that has spent most of it's
life abroad and then imported into some commercial fishery to break the record.

Andy,
Yeah I think you're right - but that only happened after there was an uproar from the angling press didn't it?

Ritchie,
Exactly! Fish that already break the record (or come close to it) when they are stocked should not be counted. To be honest, and I know I'm probably being naiive here, I wouldn't want to fish a water were the fish were stocked at more than low doubles....wherever they came from

Simon N

[This message has been edited by Simon N (edited 16-06-2000).]

There is an ethics/generation issue here. Personally I detest the introduction of these foreign monsters. They devalue our existing big-carp heritage and pose enormous health risks. Obviously the success of the likes of Darenth indicates that many do not share my views. It saddens me to see these fish paraded on the front pages of our magazines/newspapers whilst genuine fish with real pegigree are overlooked. What can you do?
The younger generation of anglers will be largely unaware of these issues and will be quickly seduced by the easy access to these enormous imposters. Many of my friends in the North West feel the same way and will continue to fish exclusively for 'heritage fish'. However I know an increasing number who have beaten a path to Acton in search of a little piece of the continent.
It will be a sad day indeed when (not if) the record is claimed by an import hunter.

Should known recently-stocked foreign carp count as record fish?.....IMO no.
Surely in this day and age a fish could be identified accuratly when stocked.
When an identified fish is stocked at say 10 lbs or under, then it can be concidered as native and eligable to be a record, if it ever does.
If a fish is at a record weight but cannot be identified as native, then it should not count as a record.
I know that it is more complicated than that but it would be a start.
It would also deter large imports as they just would not count.
Gaffer.

I think people that go on about fish artificialy stcked fish would be suprised at how many of there own waters have been stocked with foreign fish at one time or another,plus look at all the lakes where big fish have been stocked into other waters from other well know waters.you risk putting yourselves into the stalker minorty type of catagory,there is nothing wrong with this but you are for sure in the minority.and it sadens me to hear how you talk of these fish as imposters and blah blah,,its not the fishes fault and they deserve the same respect we give to out wonderful so called home grown carp..and if the record gets broken by a foreign fish??well get used to it because its going to happen sooner or latter anyway..carp fishing is FIRST AND FORMOST a buisness....do you think this site was set up because they wanted to give something back?no it is set up to someday turn a profit!! we should all stop being so sentimental and wake up and smell the roses,,this is what our sport has become..so all those big names gobbing(wrong choice maybe)off in the press make me laugh.there earning money from the sport just as those that import big foreign fish for paying punters to fish for.. hypocrosy(?) all round i think..

There are still a number of fisheries left who pride themselves on having "born & bred" stock.
Will these large imported fish be able to reproduce and therefore pass on a heritage or are they just there to satisfy the craving of the "biggest is best" mentality until they eventually turn belly upwards having served no longterm useful purpose,remember that there`s more to a fishery than just providing a hole in the ground full of fish for punters to catch.
Look at Horseshoe;not the biggest carp in Britain by any means but what beauty`s.

[This message has been edited by Kevin Babij (edited 18-06-2000).]

I agree with most of what is said. There is a difference though, in opinions and practicality. In practise, "average" carp anglers buy the papers every week and see enormous carp paraded by high profile anglers. Nobody comes out and says "this one is a foreign import". Why? Because they would get their arses sued, that's why! If those people wish to pull the wool over other people's eyes, by pretending that these are British fish, then I'm afraid I no longer respect them.

However, that doesn't bother them, because they have people lined up to pay ridiculous prices to fish their waters.

In practical terms then, the whole argument is meaningless. There will come a day when a foreign import will hold the British record, the only question is when.

What really sickens me is that fishery owners, in general (not all, by any means), will accept stock from anywhere, not just abroad, if they feel it will improve thir stock profile. This will inevitably result, some time, in a large fish kill due to introduced parasites/viruses. Fishery owners put it down to experience and buy some more. I just think that anybody who knowingly stocks fish from an unknown source, knowing the potential for death is a brain dead, money grabber who should not be in the sport.

quote:

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Originally posted by the1englishman:
I think people that go on about fish artificialy stcked fish would be suprised at how many of there own waters have been stocked with foreign fish at one time or another,plus look at all the lakes where big fish have been stocked into other waters from other well know waters.you risk putting yourselves into the stalker minorty type of catagory,there is nothing wrong with this but you are for sure in the minority.and it sadens me to hear how you talk of these fish as imposters and blah blah,,its not the fishes fault and they deserve the same respect we give to out wonderful so called home grown carp..and if the record gets broken by a foreign fish??well get used to it because its going to happen sooner or latter anyway..carp fishing is FIRST AND FORMOST a buisness....do you think this site was set up because they wanted to give something back?no it is set up to someday turn a profit!! we should all stop being so sentimental and wake up and smell the roses,,this is what our sport has become..so all those big names gobbing(wrong choice maybe)off in the press make me laugh.there earning money from the sport just as those that import big foreign fish for paying punters to fish for.. hypocrosy(?) all round i think..

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You talk about Carp fishing as a business as though this excuses the existence of the foreign imports. Of course carp fishing is a large and growing industry but that does not mean we should accept the profit motive above all others. I accept that market forces will dictate the pattern of large fish captures in the future; my problem is that there is a large 'black market', unregulated and in danger of damaging the sport for everyone. I neither seek nor want to pay for one of these fish. We should not simply accept this as business, except for the sort of business practice that abandons ethics in favour of a quick buck.

Black Knight

My opinions on this subject mirror your own.

However, a significant percentage of carp anglers are simply not bothered where the imported 30's ,40's and 50's came from - they just want to fish for and catch them regardless.Their attitude is that they go carping to catch carp so what does it matter where their quarry comes from.A carp is a carp to many and on the back of that ethos foreign imports will continue , fishery owners will get richer and the "a carp is a carp" angler will go home happy when he's caught the newly stocked 50.

I also agree with your ethics/generation comments - but at the end of the day you fish on your own terms - whatever those terms are.

Butt Banger

Thanks Butt Banger, I was beginning to feel a little isolated in my views!
You are absolutely right about fishing on your own terms, I certainly know my terms of reference and will stick to them.
Unfortunately, I feel the majic is being lost. I can relate only to my own fishing upbringing. I was raised on a diet of Walker and Redmire and then Hilton, Hutcy, Yates McDonald et al. I feel we have inheritated a wonderful heritage and one I would hope to pass onto my own son when he is old enough to fish. The sad fact is that this heritage is being slowly dismantled by every import and subsequent capture. Perhaps we should form a new carp group dedicated only to genuine English fish. It would succeed too with the patronage of Jenkins, Lane and Hearn. What do you think???????

Black Knight

You are right - our carp fishing heritage is crumbling and it is driven purely by commercialism right across the board.

I'm off to polish my cane rods and brush down the tweed.

Butt Banger

1. It's utter stupidity stocking foreign imports that are not health checked as this could wipe out the original british fish.

2. I would never look on an imported fish as a record any more than I would class a still water barbel as a record.

3. It all back to making money, but if people want to catch a big foreign fish why don't they just go to France and have done with it?

4. On my local club water we have some of the original 'Leney' carp and I would hate to have them put at risk just to have some 'new' (as they originate from Poland some 60 years ago!) foreign monsters stocked there.

We should leave well alone be it carp or cats. Why put what we already have at risk just for the sake of a few pounds.

I feel if the antis don't put a stop to angling then someones greed will!

Before long these mystery virus's that keep wiping out the fish stocks will soon kill them all!