Hearing strong rumours of a large fish kill at Horseshoe Lake and the lake is closed from Monday....

Anyone official care to confirm or deny?

If it is a big fish-kill it could be potentially the end of the Carp Society...they have shut everything else down.... ....and if Horseshoe is fcucked they have not got the members and leadership any more to finance a major restock....... ...or to pay any outstanding loan on the "Centre of Excellence"....

Posted on the CS website this evening...

PRIORITY NOTICE - CLOSURES AT HORSESHOE AND FARRIERS

HORSESHOE LAKE CLOSED

As from this morning, Horseshoe Lake is closed until further notice.

We have taken this action as a precaution. Some of you have had concerns over casualties. Until today, these had been no more than we expect to see at this time of year, nor indeed more than other fisheries have experienced.

Last week we had water samples taken by an independent scientist, the results of which are expected back next week, but initial reports are that the oxygen levels are well up. As an additional measure we have also called in the EA fishery scientist to help us determine if there are any concerns regarding fish losses over the weekend.

We had planned a closure to carry out some essential weed maitenance and we are also doing a number of things to improve on-site security, which will be carried out this week. However this occurrence will now take priority.

We appreciate this decision may cause inconvenience to anglers but our first priority as we are sure you will all agree is to the fishery and more importantly the fish.

We thank you for your patience and will continue to update you via the website and Facebook.

FARRIERS CLOSURE UPDATE


Farriers remains closed.


Last week water samples were taken by an independent scientist. The results show an algal bloom, which will need to be treated with a natural herebicide to halt its growth. this is ordered and the work will be carried out as soon as we receive it.

Although the oxygen levels were well up we were advised to install two aerators which are now in place, and will protect the fish in the event of an algae crash. The fish are not showing any signs of distress, not have their been any casualities as a result of occurrence. We are checking the lake twice a day and will keep you updated.

Farriers Permit holds need to note that Horseshoe is now closed.

I hear Paul Boichat is now admitting 'officially' to the loss of 70 carp...interesting that those officials on the ground - including two paid ones - are making no public statements but feeding figures to Paul Boichat who works for BT and is rarely at the lake......

Best guess from all accounts is the mortalities are considerably higher...

Why oh why did they re-stock a water - that was already heavily stocked with carp - of a different strain and background when there should have been sufficient Horseshoe carp being bred to stock from within?

I can't believe Horseshoe was stocked, the mind boggles it really does! There was already a mind blowing number of fish in the lake. If and it's a really big IF, there were more carp required why take the massive risk when there are already the mechanics in place to be self sufficient?


Lets just hope the damage is not severe.

Just lifted this from one of there facebook pages.....

"UPDATE
by Miles Carter on Wednesday, 17 August 2011 at 15:56

Carp Society update

As you are all aware, we closed Horseshoe Lake this week for essential maintenance work. We had planned on putting a new 260metre length of security fencing on the Summer Bay Road Bank area, this is now almost complete and before too long we will have 2 new sets of security gates as well. We had also planned to set about the weed, and whilst Gary and Dawn have been busy with that, we are behind on it because events on our other 2 lakes (Farriers and Langholme) have taken precedent. These two lakes have both got quite alarming outbreaks of Blue Green algae and it’s been all hands to the pump not only to ensure the fish are safe, but also that the anglers are safe. For those of you who aren’t familiar with Blue Green Algae, not only is it potentially dangerous for the fish if it were to ‘crash and deoxygenate the water, but it can be lethal to humans in its current state. Work has been going on round the clock on all our lakes to resolve our current crop of problems. Moving back on to Horseshoe now, and I have to say it’s so so disappointing to hear the complete shite being bandied about. I don’t read the forums but I understand some knobhead has been saying we have lost five hundred fish recently, this is probably the same person who previously said we burnt hundreds of fish in the winter. It’s no secret that we have lost a few fish since the spring, it may or may not be a secret that most lakes around the country have lost a few fish this year, but for some reason we seem to be the lake that people are spreading the most crap about. The truth of the matter is we have lost more fish than we would expect to lose, I can’t give you an exact figure but hand on heart what I can tell you is that there are a hell of a lot more fish in Horseshoe at this moment than there were this time last year. Because of all the censored on the forums and our own concerns for the fish welfare we have had an independent fishery scientist down here and we have also had the Environment Agency down. Both parties have inspected the lake and inspected a couple of dead fish and both are of the same opinion that there is absolutely nothing to even suggest that there is disease of any kind. They are both of the opinion that the fish that have passed away are simply victims of a combination of warm water temperature, water levels, inadequate spawning and old age. I will obviously keep you all posted on any changes or progress. I would like to thank everyone who has expressed their support for us, it really is invaluable in what has been a testing time for us all. As for those that have chosen, not only to stick the knives in but to give them a good old twist as well, when you’re fishing on your new lake and matey boy rocks up in the swim next door with his ghetto blaster and 24 pack of super strong lager, and the menacing smell of drugs sweeps horribly down to you just before his marker float or even better, his bait boat turns up in your swim, just remember the censored you’ve written about us and start believing in kharma."


The facebook page is designed to be a none reply one!

kind regards Jeff

I thought some of the new stock fish have died according to Paul Boichat, a Director...this isnt old age, is it?....and you can tell nothing from dead fish unless they show obvious signs of disease such as bulging eyes in cases of SVC...if its SCMS the dead fish look normal but they may have excess mucus secretions which most would take for normal....

"a combination of warm water temperature, water levels" does not their own website say they lost carp this spring?

They are very happy to take day ticket money off 'matey boy', though are they not - and also feature known drug takers at their winter shows...so why insult him/them? ...

Reads like smoke and mirrors.....they should just hold their hands up and admit that they balsed it up when they decided to stock Horseshoe from outside of the site....

Paul we are both long enough in the tooth to understand that anything published either on the carp society web site or by the carp society anywhere should be read with a great deal "of suspicion".

It is extremely rare to hear anything from Horseshoe angling club that differs from the corrpetate line, unless of course you manage to catch a baliff/member off guard.

Ive seen offical denials, to a few fish, to under 40 to as many as 125 on horseshoe alone. A few expected mortalities over a frozen winter period to all out carrniage.I reckon you can take anything offical with a pinch of salt.

Anglers have gone into print saying that the stench of death is overwhelming!.

The worrying thing for me, is the officers willingness to "atempt" to hoodwink the angling public and more so those that really know.!!!!

Stinks of "absolute power corrupts absolulty"

kind regards Jeff

The problem is Jeff, the £40,000 plus they are paying out in salaries can only come from revenue from Horseshoe and the Winter Trade Show......so loss of day ticket/permit money is a big blow...so you are not going to get the truth....

They cant rely on 3,000 plus members paying £30 a year any more as we could in my day as they have shut down the regions, shut the publications down etc.

You put all your eggs in one or two baskets and you run the risk....

Interesting that the powers that be keep referring to an independant scientist they have hired, but they don't name him...and they dont name the EA fisheries inspector who has just reported as stated on their website either....mmmmm

Here is the latest official statement which seems to contradict some of that reported by Paul Boichat.

I see the usual arrogance about not responding to their own members on Forums etc....

There are still big issues:

a. If the lake contained 850 fish before the stocking, why stock it?

b. What happened to the Horseshoe carp breeding programme? Did they sell the fish off?

c. Are they stocking again next year as planned and running the risk?

PRESS STATEMENT

It has long been estimated that Horseshoe has in excess of 1000 big fish, ie doubles or more. We estimate around one hundred of 30+. In the last eleven years we have never lost more than about 20 fish in any one year.

The first restocking last year was part of a five year plan recognising that many of the fish in the lake are over thirty years old. When we introduced the 180 small doubles we were told we may experience a slight increase in the number of mortalities as the new fish acclimatised.

We did not lose any fish through the extremely hard winter we have just had. The first notable sign of an increase in the level of deaths was over the weekend of 13/14 August and so we closed the lake on Monday 15 as a precautionary measure. Including the very recent deaths, we estimate that we have lost between 50 and 60 fish since the Spring.

Following our request for an EA inspection, their officer observed that there are absolutely no fish showing any signs of distress, nor on inspection of the dead fish was there any sign of obvious disease. This is puzzling to both the EA and the fishery scientist who independently inspected the fishery. Even though the EA saw no reason to health check the fish, they have now agreed after seeing our concern. The post mortems will be carried out next Thursday which is the earliest they can arrange and they tell us that the results will be with us within 10 to 14 days.

Asked for his overall opinion on why we may have lost fish, he surmised that a combination of a very poor spawning season, extremely low water levels and high overall temperatures, all of which are stressful conditions, have, and are, causing problems throughout the region.

The 50-60 fish we have lost have been in the mid doubles to lower twenties. This means that the head of fish in Horseshoe is still well over the long held estimate of 1000, which includes around 100 of those being over the 30lb bracket.

People have asked us why we are not responding to forum speculation. It is not our policy to partake in forums, using instead our website to communicate to all interested anglers.

We will continue to seek expert advice and as a precaution the lake will remain closed whilst we go through this very difficult period. Our priority is the lake and its fishing as it always has been.

We would encourage all anglers is to stay in touch with us directly. Please bear in mind nobody could be more concerned than we are over this recent development. As to opening date, it entirely depends on any further advice given by the EA and on our own monitoring of the situation. We will continue to post updates as information becomes available.

It also contradicts a first hand report I have read on another forum about dead and dying fish, locked bins stinking of dead fish and the stench of death all over the complex, on wed the 10th of August? The same report also makes a brief mention of rumours of a fish kill being refuted by the CS 10 days prior to his visit. Clearly Horseshoe was suffering considerable fatalities before his arrival on the 10th of August.

A cynical man would perhaps suggest that the CS are only admitting a problem existed from the date irrefutable reports appeared in the public domain.

UPDATE
Posted 30 August 2011

No change. EA will be here on Thursday to take some fish away. Fish deaths are now down to approximately one a day. EA still unconcerned as to any disease. They have repeated that it could be that we will never know the reason why we've had this blip.

We would encourage you to only refer to this website for updates.

My comment....."fish deaths approximately one a day, EA still unconcerned as to any disease", so one a day or more than one death a day to get an approx. is entirely natural is it? If I was losing a fish a day on any of my lakes I would be an extremely worried man! My guess is they will find gill damage on any disorientated fish and thus evidence of SCMS, following the stocking.....

UPDATE
Posted 2 September 2011

Army Carp Championships at Horseshoe

We, The Carp Society, in conjunction with the Army event Organiser, have taken the only responsible course of action and made a difficult decision to cancel the event.

The fish that were collected from Horseshoe yesterday (Thursday 1 September) have just been delivered to the CEFAS laboratory in Weymouth. Today, Friday, at 3pm we received a call from the CEFAS officer saying that they would rather we let them complete their analysis before we allow any further fishing to take place. They further inform us that we will not see any results from their analysis until Wednesday afternoon.
Clearly this is a disappointment to both the Army carp anglers and to The Society.

As always both organisations have chosen to put the fish and fishery ahead of any self-interest.

David Mannall, Commercial Director & Warrant Officer Tim Gray, Army Event Organiser

I was very disappointed to see fish stocked from off site at Horseshoe Lake. When I was Fisheries Manager with The Carp Society I dug spawning ponds, a dubish pond & half acre growing on pond. I also achieved Fish Farm status for The Carp Society from the EA. Over the last 3 years before I retired I bred hundreds of carp from Horseshoe stock. Sadly after I retired there was no movement in regards to breeding fish from Horseshoe. The 4" fish I bred from stock went into the lagoon & growing on pond, and as far as I know they are still there - unless they were sold.

You had the vision and drive to see what was needed for the future of Horseshoe...

So Carp Society what happened to those fish?

I also owe you a personal apology for doubting the wisdom of your stocking of Farriers at the time with all those little commons.....you made the place..

Thanks for the compliments Paul, nobody has ever thanked me for what I did for the Carp Society but when I took over as Fisheries Manager I let everyone know that no carp would leave Horseshoe & no carp would enter. I was determined to breed the stock myself for future years knowing the original fish then were approaching old age.
As regards Farriers, I took an awful lot of stick when I introduced those commons to Carp Lake Daiwa. There were 500 fish approximately that I got from a farmers pond (at a cost of £150); had them tested by the EA, who informed me after the tests were made that the fish could reach 60lbs or more. Unfortunately, as they were only averaging under 1lb when stocked, the Cormorants were a major problem at the time. Today some of the commons are coming out at over 50lb. You would have thought somebody would have picked the phone up & said 'You were right Brian, and we were wrong'.
As a CS life member the gate No's of both Horseshoe & Farriers are not readily available to me.
I am not looking for compliments for what I did but to be able to walk around Horseshoe & Farriers any time I wanted to would be nice as I secured Daiwa & Langholme for the CS.

From the CS website......

UPDATE
Posted 8 September 2011

Horseshoe will reopen on Wednesday 14 September at 9am.

CEFAS have concluded their PCR for KHV, which is a very exhaustive virology test, and the results are confirmed as negative. This clearly is a relief for us, and for you, the anglers.

As you know we are determined to find out the root cause of the fish deaths in mid August. The EA will continue to test for bacteria and parasites, and will work closely with CEFAS on our behalf.

With further testing ongoing, as a precaution we are going to instigate a regime of disinfecting equipment on entry and exit to the site. Dips will be in place for Wednesday morning and all anglers MUST use them. Failure to do so will be viewed as a rule infringement.

David Mannall
Commercial Director

hi Brian, you were probably the best thing about the CS. good on you for all you done, fella. i reeled in and came to help [with my mates from liverpool] when you first netted the ponds by the mounds to remove the fry and move them to the bigger stock pond at the end of the trout bank. it is a real shame that the CS and horseshoe lost its way over the years.
re; Daiwa... i thought those stock fish came from the isle at shrewsbury, from the PA. i was on the netting team on the day! they are still waiting for the tench that were agreed as a swap... oops!

Hi Mate, thanks for the support for the work I did at Horseshoe, yes I put everything in place so that we could breed from our own stock.
Regarding the Diawa stocking, the fish - mostly commons, came from a retiring farmer's pond on the border of Oxfordshire/Northamptonshire. I am happy to say that those fish are now banking at over 50lb.
It would be good to talk to you some more, would you like to send me your email address?

...any fish caught from Horseshoe since it reopened?

pm sent.

Any fish left in there Paul?......I will get me coat eh?

kind regards Jeff

Its been open nearly a week and no reports of fish yet have been published...you would think they couldnt wait to publicise any catch....

...next to no fish have been caught since it re-opened or so I've been told.....

using the smiley...
does that imply you are pleased or happy that its fishing poorly?
we both posted [on CF] suggesting that there was more going on that the CS are cracking on but it really isnt something to be about...

Hi Carra, I'm implying that the CS management isnt telling the whole truth.....not for the first time either!

I did put my house at risk in the past to guarantee the CS's bank overdraft so that they didn't have to sell Horseshoe etc so I have a clear interest in its welfare.....

i was a CS member back in the day, and know about what the likes of you, Paisley and Brian Sefton did for the CS and Horseshoe. i know you did/do care about the place[as i do] and i agree that the current CS management are not telling the whole truth. we have both said the same in the CF thread, but that isnt going anywhere... such a shame.
the CS isnt anything like it was originally envisaged. you'd have thought they would have changed the name to Horseshoe lake angling enterprises

They can't legally do that as they hold the lake on trust for ever for the Carp Society and its members....

It's an absolute disgrace that non-CS members can now just pay to fish there. That was never the intention, when the members were asked to put their hands in their pockets and purchased the lake for the Society.
I wish someone had the balls and wherewithall to legally challenge this decision made by people who had nothing to do with Horseshoe's acquisition and who have turned their back on the Society's history and real aims and the contribution of many people down the years to it....

I hear fish are still being found dead.....yet they are still selling day tickets....

The latest Blog can be read here...

http://www.thecarpsociety.com/blog.html

Which seems to contradict previous statements by David Mannall, and if you add up the numbers stated and ignore the corporate bullshit it adds up to a significant fish loss...

The fundemental question remains if Horseshoe contains 1000 carp which includes, according to the blog, all the young fish in the stock ponds swept in by floods, how idiotic was the decision to re-stock from outside?

Another thing in the Blog intruiges me. Clive Owden - former Head Bailiff- is stated as claiming that after the first Fish With The Stars Event over 11 years ago (although I recollect the first event was some years prior) 40 or 50 Horseshoe carp were found dead. Well, I was at that event as one of the stars (sic) and I was on the CS committee at the time and that was never as far as I can remember ever reported to us....

Perhaps Clive would be prepared to comment?

Taken directly from the blog.

Paul I know spawning is not a precise science, but Waters up and down the country and overseas are reporting there best ever spawning this year and putting fish weights down in general to this event

kind regards Jeff

I'm afraid the definitive reason, Miles, is that you had a unnecessary large stocking of a different strain carp from off-site.....all the rest of your suggestions are complete red herrings....

You are right, Jeff, it has been a great year for spawning everywhere except it seems Horseshoe (cough!)....

i was talking with a friend today. he has mates who fish on horseshoe almost every day of the week. he says that now only the stockies are being caught. the army recently cancelled their annual fish in, but the RAF decided to go ahead. 40 lads fished for 5 days, with only 3 stockies being caught.

Yes, thats what I have heard too...its about time they came clean and told the truth.....

Still only stockies coming out....

Paul, was that you winding up keith aurthur on fishermans blues [re; horseshoe] this morning. thought i recognised the "put on" wigan/barnsley accent

No mate...Saturday is changeover day when I'm up to my neck....and it costs too much to ring in from France... However, I wish it was...

i caught a bit of the fishermans blues radio show on talk sport this morning. a caller [the same woolly as last week] was asking keith arthur if there was any updates about horseshoe.
keith told him that it seemed fairly certain that horseshoe had suffered a khv outbreak.

im not sure if its possible to find the clip and post a link into this thread?

If someone can find the link just post the URL here...I can't do it from France....if it is KHV then the implications will be catastrophic as mortality rates are usually 80 - 100% over a period of time....

Perhaps Miles will then apologise to the CS member he called a 'knobhead' in his Blog, who had suggested the loss of 500 carp....but I doubt it - such is the arrogance of the current CS officials....

link to the show; http://www.talksport.co.uk/radio/listen-again/episode/54403

listen to the 7.00-7.30 section, from 20.15 on the timer.

Well Keith says he has researched the kill and he is 99% certain that the lake has KHV.....the official CS stance is that it does not....I know who I believe and it is not the CS officials whose salaries now depend on Horseshoe angling revenue....

I was listening to that at the time Paul, it would be very unlike Keith to come out with a load of old cobblers...

The latest news can be read here:

http://www.thecarpsociety.com/blog.html

It appears that even though the lake has been heavily fished since it re-opened in one of the best ever late summers/autumns for carp catching the biggest carp caught from Horseshoe has been just 27lbs with mainly stockies being caught.......

I think carp anglers can draw their own conclusions from the stats....

In the latest Blog and on the CS Facebook page they are now bigging up catches of pastie stockies of as small as 13lbs and old originals topping out at 21 pounds, plus all the coarse species.....

Wanna buy a Horseshoe permit for 2012?

sweet not!!!! lets stock some pastys and lose a 50, 100, 150????? big scaley originals its an joke!!!! i payed for four nights in aug and left after 2 after finding dead fish in no carp corner, summer bay and winter car-park it stank of death me and a mate showed our concerns and they carried on selling ticket to my disbelieve a week later they shut the for maintenance yer right more than likely to collect the mass of rotting carp!!!!!!

the death of a mega fishery i beleive!!!!! and autum catches have backed this up.....

on a plus note there a 100 30s in there!!!! yer right there a 100 pastys and a few original.....

r.i.p to once a great fishery with carp to dream about!!!!