Fair point Timbs...i was focusing on the advice about using flying backleads,and if Andy doesnt have flying backleads in his fox box and fails to understand the use of said product then i'll eat yours,pauls and anyone else who advised the use of backleads shorts !

The use of a flying back lead is part of my armoury everytime when casting and is best when a pva stop knot is placed just on the main line,12inch's,passed the leader knot...ie the whole leader is pinned down,it also aids distance on the cast,cutting down on a bow of line on the wind as the lead dont travel so far,stops the creation of "2" sections of line,from the reel to the back lead,then back lead to lead,in my case this is Xline 17lb,the main line is 12lb sensor,22ft xline on the deck,which we are led to believe is pretty much undetectable(if it's a weedy lie i'll use Fox illusion 15lb,the sensor is fished semi slack,2ft pulled from the spool,let it settle and put on the indicator and adjust,as we all do,but for Andy to achieve good indication,i presume he feels he needs a tight line,i know if im fishing 80 yds plus there is a need to have some weight to pull over the delks if you want em to work properly and aid detection at range,over 20 ft of water depth if you dont put a stop on your line for the lead a back lead may work against you,creating a very odd angle of line that the fish encounter.
Take the pepsi challenge Andy 15 quid do the test fish a tight red line and show us the photo's when bag you oooop lad.

j.

Red line does not become invisible in water, it becomes black/greenish as red is lost in the underwater spectrum (over 10 feet).

Thanks Octopus, not just for getting the post back on topic, but my mind also. Even I was getting distracted by all the back lead talk. I will have a look at the TFG red line, sounds like a real leap of faith though. I suppose the acid test will be if the fish bump into it.

Perhaps I should expand upon what I have written in an attempt to explain the challenge a little more. We are talking short distances here, perhaps 30-40 yards across the corners of a lake or across little bays, fishing to clear patches on the far margins. And no, it’s not possible to walk round and just fish from the other side LOL. The clear spots are usually in about 5-7ft of water but despite such a short cast the water may be as much as 30ft deep mid water, although in most cases it’s more like 14ft. In the past for a considerable length of time the water level was much lower and its rise to the current level quite swift and unexpected. As a result if you go down the marginal slope about 10 ft you come to what used to be the old margin complete with paths, tree stumps, old rotting platforms etc all covered and surrounded by thick weed growing up to the surface. The far margin is usually not quite so scary however in some spots there may be weed and/or snags further down the marginal slope, i.e. back towards the rods. Combine this with fallen trees and It’s not quite a hit and hold situation but not so far off.

Even if the lake bed was clear of debris you would not want to have yards of slack line neatly hugging the lake bed because the fish would have shot through the nearest fallen tree before you got it all back on the reel. It’s a case of nail your rods to the bank, lock everything up and don’t let the fish gain any momentum. At best you can give off just enough slack to allow your line to sink a little at the business end.

So if we concede that in this particular case, having line running through the swim mid-water is unavoidable, we are back to the original question. Any advance on red line? Clear really looks the business pinned down to the lake bed but pants mid water, is dark line any better in this situation?

Oh and by the way, did I forget to mention that it’s so clear that its like tap water.

.....Perhaps I should expand upon what I have written in an attempt to explain the challenge a little more. We are talking short distances here, perhaps 30-40 yards across the corners of a lake or across little bays, fishing to clear patches on the far margins. ....



Problem solved 30-40yds..rods high..guitar strings = less line cutting through water = quite possibly close to float fishing..the line that does cut the water will be in weed so all should be fine..less spooky!...good luck but i see no problem!

Why not fish the main line on the surface ?,plumb the depth of your chosen "hole" and using a fox clear pike float(the internal bore type) free running on 15 lb line and a powergum stop knot the float will pass over under pressure(no leader knots) set the float 1 ft overdepth,use exactly the same set up as normal(lead clip,in line etc). On the cast sink on a tight line,feel the lead and then edge it back toward yourself till you feel the lead on the weed,the line should run vertically up the weed wall to the float and to your tip,you can play about with tips up or down as you like as it really depends on what the wind is doing in any given situation,a blinding method for fishing over huge weed beds,the ressie i fish has 40 yds of weed to fish over sometimes and a pva bag fished in this style has caught me fish,the further you cast the lead,the more "over depth" you have to set the float,cos youre pulling more line back to the reel and cutting into the weed. As for the red stuff...if a bloke has three fish out of St John when the lake aint fishing all that...over maize and not the lastest fishy treats from whoever then i make a mental note...i,m going to buy some red line and try it as hooklengths as i tend to fish deeper marks,bit of nylon hooklink fan,no need for any steamed plastic or fancy coated braids.

j.

great idea ..i would consider giving that a go j.. dependant on weed conditions etc..
That red line does sound good tho..one for the future and very interesting..cheers!
let us know how it goes with further testing andy and j.

I fished years ago with the French Mahin brothers on their crystal clear lake... they caught loads on bright fluorescent yellow main line.....

I have heard the same technique worked on Cassien in the early 80's,people thought because the fish could see the line they would follow it to it's end and there low and behold there was food. I have not looked into line colour and spectrum so can't comment on where yellow would be in the spectrum of disapearing colours under the surface.

j.

Yellow is next in the spectrum to be absorbed by water, and like red it does not disappear at all and become invisible. They simply lose their colour and become black/grey

Exactly. I wish I had a quid for every angler that believes all that guff about red line 'disappearing' at depth