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#342056 - 18/06/09 05:46 PM Otter threat to Cheshire, please read
hotshot Offline
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Northwich Angling Association recieved notice a short while ago, of a proposal to build an Otter Park on the river weaver between Northwich and Winsford. I dont need to spell out the potential disaster that Cheshire carp waters may face if this proposal goes ahead. Below is NAA'S press release, please read it. We will have the most impact by each of us writing to the address at the bottom stating why we object, please do not state what you may or may not wish to do to the otters. This is the biggest threat the NW has been faced with, please do your bit, thankyou thumbsup
‘Otter Park’ proposal: a serious threat to fisheries in Cheshire.

The ‘Weaver Valley Management Board’ (WVMB) has issued a document which promises to turn the River Weaver into “A home for Tarka and Ratty”.

It states that a “a proposed Otter Park will run along the Weaver between Winsford and Northwich forming an attractive green space rich in wildlife.”

The document goes on to say that:


“The Environment Agency’s Otter habitat survey found that Otters move freely in the River Weaver as far as Winsford and signs have also been found at Northwich. New habitat will be created for these popular animals, creating a stimulus to improve water quality for people and wildlife, and improve fish populations. The key action points are:

1. Create the ‘Weaver Otter Park” between Winsford and Northwich, including backwaters for fish breeding, fish passes from meanders to main river, wetland habitat creation and interpretation.

2. Identify further sites in the lower Weaver Valley.



The Otter ‘Bio-diversity Action Plan’ is a national initiative which aims to restore the otter population in areas where they are known to have existed prior to the 1960’s, when many died due to ingesting herbicides and pesticides used in agriculture. However, the introduction of otters to new areas, including unsuitable areas like urban rivers, has caused havoc in other parts of the country. Many valuable specimen fish have been killed and, in some cases, entire fisheries decimated.

Northwich Anglers Association bailiff Neil McComb has first hand experience of the problem:

“At my syndicate lake in Hereford one pair of otters emptied a two acre stock pond which contained over 100 carp up to 25 lb. in weight. More carp were killed in the main lake, where many of the larger specimens sustained horrific damage with fins bitten off, eyes scratched out and chunks of flesh bitten away, especially from the tail wrist and back. All of this happened in just a couple of months between December and February”.


Some fishing clubs have been forced to close, or to slash their fees and there are, of course, wider implications for the tackle trade and for tourism. Anglers simply will not travel to, or pay to fish waters which have had their fish stocks plundered by otters.

The proposal to create new habitat in order to encourage otters to populate the lower Weaver Valley, including the area between Winsford and Northwich, could spell disaster for Northwich Anglers Association, and for angling clubs throughout Cheshire.

Although Otters are territorial animals they have a range of up to 25 miles and, if encouraged to breed in new areas, could spread much further afield by using streams and watercourses to reach other fisheries. The implications of this are painfully obvious. Consider the number of still water fisheries, either connected to, or lying in close proximity to the Weaver and its tributaries.

Some of these waters contain specimen fish which are priceless, not just in financial terms but as an asset to anglers. In particular, one of our fisheries (a SSSI) holds carp which have grown to weights in excess of 40 lbs. with many others now topping the 30 lb. mark. Some of the fish are believed to have been in residence now for around 60 years, and the venue in question is considered to be one of the most important in the North of England. We know that otters attack the largest, slower moving fish first. Often these specimens are badly mauled and left to die a slow and distressing death. The thought that this could happen here in Cheshire is devastating.

Recently we have developed and stocked a new complex of three still waters with a view to encouraging increased participation in angling by juniors, families, the disabled and other groups. This is a long term investment which has cost many thousands of pounds and has turned an area of wasteland into a place of tranquility and natural beauty. This is typical of our commitment to the countryside and the whole community, not just anglers, will benefit for years to come.

The River Weaver itself is thriving, and a recent survey by the Environment Agency confirmed its importance as a first class mixed coarse fishery. The river holds roach, perch, bream, carp, tench, pike, chub, dace, gudgeon and eels, and further upstream there are even a few brown trout. The presence of so many fish, and the fact that the river is free from pollution, is largely due to the efforts of anglers.

The work we have done to improve fisheries, and the environment in the Weaver Valley, hasn’t just taken 5 or 10 or even 20 years. It has taken generations, yet all of this could be wiped out at a stroke.

We cannot turn the clock back to the days before the Industrial Revolution when the Weaver Valley was a very different place, and greater numbers of otters may have lived in the Winsford and Northwich area. You cannot simply reintroduce a predatory animal into an environment which has changed beyond recognition, and hope that everything will be alright. It won’t !

We have already seen the damage caused when mink are released into the wild without any thought for the consequences. The impact on indigenous birds and waterfowl has been horrendous.

In 2003, the last time a large-scale survey was carried out, the European river otter (lutra lutra) was present in more than five times as many areas as it was in 1979 (1). Despite this there has been a dramatic decrease in the availability of eels – once the otter's staple diet, during the same period. The eel population now stands at just 5% of what it should be, which is why otters are feasting on other species of fish which are highly prized by anglers.


The proposed ‘Otter Park’ appears to have been made without any regard for anglers, even though the WVMB has promised to “take into account all waterway users” and has acknowledged that “angling is very popular in the Weaver Valley area”.


We have to question some of the claimed advantages which WVMB says otters will bring. In particular, the notion that otters “will improve water quality for people and wildlife”; which simply doesn’t make sense. Also, the claim that otters will “improve fish populations”. Surely they will have the opposite effect ?


The only way to protect fisheries from otters is to install electric fences. However, these would be prohibitively expensive to install, costly to maintain, and would change the face of the countryside forever. Realistically, the only way we can save our fisheries is to stop more otters arriving in the first place.

What can you do to help ?

By far the best thing you can do is to write to WVMB and register your objection to the proposal. The more letters they receive from concerned individuals, the better our chance of success.

Please write to:

Mike Cooksley,

Chairman: Weaver Valley Development Board,

Cheshire West and Chester Council,

Regeneration

Backford Hall

Chester

Cheshire

CH1 6PZ
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#342060 - 18/06/09 08:00 PM Re: Otter threat to Cheshire, please read [Re: hotshot]
Saul Offline
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Get writing those letters guys before it's too late wall

Cheers
Saul

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#342076 - 20/06/09 08:10 AM Re: Otter threat to Cheshire, please read [Re: Saul]
Tony the Rat man Offline
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For Feck sake, these people! you do realise that it is the same type of person that banned hunting with dogs and hare coursing.

These people have no concept of how the countryside works and what efforts that us anglers put into maintaining and growing the habitat, not only for the fish, but birds and insects and other wildlife, if you start introducing any for of wildlife that is at the top end of the food chain, (and that chain has changed when these animals where prolific)the other animals will all suffer, yes you make it a better environment for otters, but what about all the others?
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#342087 - 21/06/09 05:07 PM Re: Otter threat to Cheshire, please read [Re: Tony the Rat man]
STEZ Offline
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#342103 - 22/06/09 11:23 PM Re: Otter threat to Cheshire, please read [Re: STEZ]
Brian the Huyton one and only Offline
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All done stez fella thumbsup
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#342107 - 23/06/09 08:19 AM Re: Otter threat to Cheshire, please read [Re: Brian the Huyton one and only]
STEZ Offline
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Can you make this a sticky pls mods....

done lar


Edited by Stumpy (23/06/09 01:00 PM)
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#342164 - 25/06/09 07:28 PM Re: Otter threat to Cheshire, please read [Re: STEZ]
Darth_Mullet Offline
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Stez, suggest putting the petition up on the RMC site too, and others. More signatures = more weight to the arguement. In my opinion, where people live bears no relevance.

The Rat - well put.

As an aside, in NZ there are huge moves to alter the countryside, including poisoning every living creature and then re-populating with indigenous species. Mainly due to Possums, which don't belong there. It's a highly controversial practise.

Man will never learn, too much meddling.

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#342173 - 25/06/09 11:59 PM Re: Otter threat to Cheshire, please read [Re: Darth_Mullet]
Trig Offline
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Originally Posted By: Darth_Mullet
Mainly due to Possums, which don't belong there


Otters do belong in our waters, but not in the unsustainable numbers that they're trying to establish frown

Like it, or not, they're here to stay frown

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#342227 - 01/07/09 04:30 PM Re: Otter threat to Cheshire, please read [Re: Trig]
Paul Selman Administrator Offline
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I hear on the grapevine that Kevin Maddocks's fishery at Ringstead - which lies next to the Nene - has lost some carp due to otter predation..... upset

None of the very big carp in the water have been caught so far this season.... wall
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#342228 - 01/07/09 07:27 PM Re: Otter threat to Cheshire, please read [Re: Paul Selman]
NOTaTIMBER Offline
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this thing with otters,i`m sure you can protect your stock as with farmers against foxes with chickens..surely wink
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#342230 - 01/07/09 07:47 PM Re: Otter threat to Cheshire, please read [Re: NOTaTIMBER]
Trig Offline
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Originally Posted By: NOTaTIMBER
i`m sure you can protect your stock as with farmers against foxes with chickens..surely wink


Nope. Otters are completely protected under UK and European law, Carp are not frown

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#342231 - 01/07/09 07:50 PM Re: Otter threat to Cheshire, please read [Re: Trig]
NOTaTIMBER Offline
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bollooox..european law or not..if i see anything of the kind happening..it`ll be rough justice for the little bleeters..i`ll set a trap with poison attached end of BoomSmilie_anim
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#342234 - 01/07/09 09:01 PM Re: Otter threat to Cheshire, please read [Re: NOTaTIMBER]
Trig Offline
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The maximum penalty for intentionally injuring or killing an otter is 6 months imprisonment and/or a £5000 fine, per animal. Still fancy the rough justice route? woot

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#342236 - 01/07/09 09:08 PM Re: Otter threat to Cheshire, please read [Re: Trig]
NOTaTIMBER Offline
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how much does a thirty cost to buy thumbsup
the police and judicial system is outstretched as it is...can`t see them filtering phone calls and plying their resources to seek me out int middle of neet for otter interference..especially with bin laden lovers on da loose wave..perspective trig.get back to thaa vroom tongue2

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#342238 - 01/07/09 09:38 PM Re: Otter threat to Cheshire, please read [Re: NOTaTIMBER]
Trig Offline
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Oh well, you better get ready then. If the carnage otters have caused in Norfolk is anything to go by, your Cheshire carp should be afraid. Very afraid...

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#342241 - 02/07/09 12:26 PM Re: Otter threat to Cheshire, please read [Re: Trig]
Stumpy Moderator Offline
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I have seen the damage the cute furry fornicators do 1st hand but legally there is sweet fa that can be done.

They have ripped various shropy secreet waters to bits and Cheshire is just up the road, litterally from some waters

Home grown 30+ with history from a wee fry at a guess £3k+

The problem is to most its just a fish not cute and fury like a tara.
Slight asside an issac hunt is kinda cute and often furry they often get shot at, around and in, Soooooooooooooo how about renaming tara to Issac
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#342244 - 02/07/09 10:32 PM Re: Otter threat to Cheshire, please read [Re: NOTaTIMBER]
Filthy_Animal Administrator Offline
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Originally Posted By: NOTaTIMBER
bollooox..european law or not..if i see anything of the kind happening..it`ll be rough justice for the little bleeters..i`ll set a trap with poison attached end of BoomSmilie_anim


This kind of moronic posting is exactly the reason why I refuse to offer any knowledge or advice on otters anymore, particularly after one vagina I gave a load of advice is rumoured to have killed an otter that wasn't doing any harm in its own natural habitat. The Norfolk scenario is totally different to the rest of the country....see my past writings on this as I wont be commenting further.

To add to Steve's posting re. legislation, it is also an offence to recklessly disturb, injure or kill an otter. Their resting places are also protected.
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#342245 - 02/07/09 11:53 PM Re: Otter threat to Cheshire, please read [Re: Filthy_Animal]
Trig Offline
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Originally Posted By: Filthy_Animal
see my past writings on this


Please post a link.

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#342246 - 03/07/09 12:01 AM Re: Otter threat to Cheshire, please read [Re: Filthy_Animal]
Trig Offline
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Originally Posted By: Filthy_Animal
[quote=NOTaTIMBER]particularly after one vagina I gave a load of advice is rumoured to have killed an otter that wasn't doing any harm in its own natural habitat


That's the danger. What we really don't want is a bunch of wannabe Charles Bronsons trying to eradicate the legally released otters.

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#342247 - 03/07/09 12:47 AM Re: Otter threat to Cheshire, please read [Re: Trig]
Filthy_Animal Administrator Offline
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That's the popular misconception....the vast majority of otters across Britain were not released and were a process of natural recolonisation (except places like Norfolk where that tit was realeasing a bunch of semi-tame otters in one area). Simple population dynamics and ecology say that was going to be a problem! There will only be as many otters in an area as there is enough prey to support them...which is why they live in very low densities over a large territory.
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#342249 - 03/07/09 05:48 AM Re: Otter threat to Cheshire, please read [Re: Filthy_Animal]
NOTaTIMBER Offline
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so its a misconception otters kill carp...anything that kills carp will be my enemy..whether human or animal..wink and will suffer the concequences..hunting and fishing..tis all but the same..except only the carp get to live..wink!!!
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#342295 - 07/07/09 07:45 AM Re: Otter threat to Cheshire, please read [Re: NOTaTIMBER]
Tony the Rat man Offline
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Timber

foxes are classed as Pests, whilst Otters are protected, big difference.
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#342330 - 08/07/09 07:28 PM Re: Otter threat to Cheshire, please read [Re: Tony the Rat man]
NOTaTIMBER Offline
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Originally Posted By: Tony the Rat man
Timber

foxes are classed as Pests, whilst Otters are protected, big difference.


there certainly is a big difference tony..foxes dont eat carp grin


Edited by NOTaTIMBER (08/07/09 07:28 PM)
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#344306 - 20/10/09 10:00 PM Re: Otter threat to Cheshire, please read [Re: NOTaTIMBER]
The_Oyster_1 Offline
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They do taste OK with a bit of parsley sause, large white flakes etc,, but I still prefer most sea fish species. Sadly Otters can only catch what is available to them in their environment.

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#344319 - 20/10/09 11:43 PM Re: Otter threat to Cheshire, please read [Re: The_Oyster_1]
andy jack Administrator Offline
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Quote:
There will only be as many otters in an area as there is enough prey to support them...which is why they live in very low densities over a large territory.


That’s the nuts and bolts of the problem. We are talking Cheshire here! There is an abundance of prey that will support lots of Otters. Sadly very little of it lives in the Otters natural environment.

The major rivers and their tributaries were open sewers within my memory. I remember the Tame, a tributary of the Mersey, running all colours of the rainbow and quite often being so full of detergent that each weir looked like a giant bubble bath.

Yes things have improved beyond recognition but the recovery process has only just begun. We can not pretend that all is well, just because we have cleaned up the rivers enough to support a few coarse fish. What is being proposed here, is introducing a top predator into an environment which does not have the food chain in place to support it.

Even if there was the food chain in place, there is valid argument against their re-introduction because the environment has changed so much. What is that line in Jurassic park? Words to the effect “they were so busy working out if they could, that they never stopped to think if they should?”

Cheshire is not an isolated location, where the Otters will stay in situ at the release site because it’s Hobson’s choice. Quite the opposite Cheshire’s rivers could prove to be the ideal highway to easy pickings. Why would Otters try to eek out an existence in an environment virtually devoid of its natural choice of food, when they are in spitting distance of a captive audience of big fat fish that have no real natural predators or the resultant survival instincts? In fact even if the food chain was in place are they going to waste energy hunting Eels all day long to survive, or just plop into a lake and grab a big fat fish?

I don’t know if Otter problems are the result of introductions or natural colonisation? What we do know is that they are a problem. At the very least there is enough evidence of problems to justify a ban on further introductions, perhaps even a case for control in certain circumstances? Imagine the outrage if they were eating cats? wink
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#344324 - 21/10/09 07:05 AM Re: Otter threat to Cheshire, please read [Re: andy jack]
NOTaTIMBER Offline
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otters in cheshire... would be equivalant to keeping a girraffe locked up at anfield..its pure cruelty!...unless.. it was blindfolded whilst the games are being played tongue2
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#344327 - 21/10/09 10:20 AM Re: Otter threat to Cheshire, please read [Re: NOTaTIMBER]
Filthy_Animal Administrator Offline
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Natural colonisation Andy. Very few otters have been released in the whole country and were released in localised areas, hence a few waters having problems...too many released in one area (which was shunned by those who work in the field, and no more releases are being undertaken).

last post ever on the subject
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#344338 - 21/10/09 10:18 PM Re: Otter threat to Cheshire, please read [Re: Filthy_Animal]
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These / Those anglers who don't understand the environment...and I am writing about basic educated common sense I feel from my point of view...

Otters will not affect your catch rate and to a far more drastic possibility will not ever make carp vulnerable or even EXTINCT!! so chill and worry about where you are chucking your line not t'otters!

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#344342 - 21/10/09 11:25 PM Re: Otter threat to Cheshire, please read [Re: The_Oyster_1]
NOTaTIMBER Offline
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bigger longer rats with bigger teeth..thats all they are!!!
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#346927 - 18/08/10 06:08 PM Re: Otter threat to Cheshire, please read [Re: NOTaTIMBER]
astjohn05 Offline
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i heard about this otter park back in january in carpworld i think it was. i was shocked alittle as it had only just been highlighted the month before about the damage otters can do to fisheries.
i've already sent a letter complaining about the fact of the otter park. and that otters should be able to recononise naturally without humans giving them a helping hand. i have seen 2 otters on the weaver and acouple on the severn. they are obviously already there in the quiet areas. we don't need to help them anymore.

HUMANS CAN NOT PLAY GOD!

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#347830 - 24/02/11 03:44 PM Re: Otter threat to Cheshire, please read [Re: STEZ]
Paul Selman Administrator Offline
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I hear one or two of the big Colemere fish have been killed recently by otters...... wall wall
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#347831 - 24/02/11 10:04 PM Re: Otter threat to Cheshire, please read [Re: Paul Selman]
maple Offline
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mid 40 common and a mid 30 mirror, i see on another forum upset

only one thing to do BoomSmilie_anim
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#348647 - 08/11/11 12:21 PM Re: Otter threat to Cheshire, please read [Re: maple]
Paul Selman Administrator Offline
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I found the report in Octobers Carpworld about otters decimating carp waters in Cornwall very disturbing........ upset

Two waters I used to enjoy fishing - Shillamill Lakes and Woodley Farm - have lost all their carp due to otter predation and are now finished as carp fisheries.... wall

If it can happen in Cornwall it can happen anywhere...... upset
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#348682 - 23/11/11 06:52 PM Re: Otter threat to Cheshire, please read [Re: hotshot]
Paul Selman Administrator Offline
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BBC North West Tonight reports otters have returned to the Mersey Basin, around Warrington..... cwm3...holts are being built to help them stay and breed...Grey Mist carp are now at risk..... wall
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#348759 - 17/01/12 09:11 AM Re: Otter threat to Cheshire, please read [Re: Paul Selman]
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I recently read a report that there are now estimated to be 10,000 otters in England and the fact that most have been hand reared before being released, means that they are not afraid of people. This fact has been underlined by Hugh Miles [maker of Passion for Angling and Catching the impossible] having his pond "ottered" and his large Koi decimated.
It also now appears that the bird on the RSPB "badge", the Avocet is being endangered because otters are taking their eggs and chicks. This may be the one thing that turns some of the public away from the "cuddly, furry animal" and makes them realise that they are an apex predator.

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#348766 - 17/01/12 03:28 PM Re: Otter threat to Cheshire, please read [Re: Moorsey]
STEZ Offline
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Originally Posted By: Moorsey

It also now appears that the bird on the RSPB "badge", the Avocet is being endangered because otters are taking their eggs and chicks. This may be the one thing that turns some of the public away from the "cuddly, furry animal" and makes them realise that they are an apex predator.



You'd like to think so ...
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#348767 - 17/01/12 04:00 PM Re: Otter threat to Cheshire, please read [Re: STEZ]
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Posts: 11572
Loc: Etangs De Breton, North West ...
10,000 otters in England is a lot of dead carp left breathing on the banks with chunks taken out of them..the Carp Society SHOULD BE the lead body in politics to deal with this problem: that is what I and Tim, Les, Derek etc would be striving to do...unfortunately those masquerading as the Carp Society nowadays are just interested in having enough money to pay the salaries of people with little work to do and paying leases on a couple of lakes... that was never our intention, our intention was to make the Carp Society a real force in all angling, not just the controllor of three waters.......mad
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