looking for some imfo on the above water,think it's on the a34 toward's alsager pm's if you like thanks in advance

Beefy, are you out there....

Have alook on the Monkeys Web Site.

7-8acres, 18-20 fish
2 defo 30's, Orange 33-36lbs, Nelson 33-35lbs
Silverback and the Italian will scrape 30 at the right time of year,
but down to 26 & 27 after spawining.

Quite tricky place, 8-12fish in a season and you'd the Man
Most peeps managed a couple of fish for a years fishing when I
fished it . .

Still a lot of snags up the deeps, including 2x 30ft trees in the lake
(which are under the water, so can only be seen when the waters clear),
still needs a bit of work doing IMO

Check how much you can fish, as rumour the shallows is going to be
out-of-bounds, the residents always moaned when you were down
there, when I fished there . .they reckoned they had exclusive access and
anglers didn't.

Very picturesque

So thats where hotshots silk cushion got to

Nice to read an honest appraisal eh Matt, with all that bull spouted on the Numptys site . . .

'In the land of the blind the one-eyed man is king'
Crack on Cyclops

Very acurate description of the place there invader

Why havent you put the pictures up of all them specimen bream you caught

beefy and colclough. They the ones to ask about whats in there, because they had em all out!!!!

...are they still in Castlemere, sos, or now RIP....

The few surviving fish (lawton originals) were moved to Pool Hall when Salty lost the lease . .

Wonder whats happening with castlemere now? Last i heard it was operating under the guise of 'park pool' I remember the guy who took it over coming on the monkeys site looking for potential syndicate members. He was promising the world and telling us how we'd all be sorry for mocking it when the 40's were swimming in there.

Ive heard nothing about the place since, strange that...

Hearing of what fish were lost to castlemere and westport makes me think what a place it was in its time or what it could have been today if people could have just let it be

The fella who runs 'Castle Mere' now has taken quite a bold
stance for that syndicate, he's gone out and bought some
stock for the place !!

Although even THEY must have started out with 'good intentions'
to detail the setting up of the original syndicate in the early Carpworlds.

Good luck to the new fella on Castle Mere, he can't help what the SHOWER
that run it before him did !

paul, last i heard the "long 22" was dead, i heard it made 34lb in castlemere, it would have been bigger if left in lawton, dont know about "two scale" or "boilie machine". My fishing was never the same again after that, had some good fish from other waters but lawton was "nirvana". My best ever fishing memories where down there, it was like loosing a close friend when it was fleeced, gutted.

nice and peaceful place to fish when i fished there in the early 90's,i remember an old bloke in his late 70's !!(i kid you not) was bivvied up next to me for the weekend,hope i'm still dangling at his age if memeory serves it was 10 sheets for 24 hrs

the surroundings where you parked the car and the building full of graffitti looked well dodgy tho

Was a nice place to fish Lawton, did a bit on there in the early to mid 90s when it was syndicate,it held about 20 x 20ys in them days untill it got raped .
The old chap who fished there would of been old John,sound bloke allways had a story to tell,there was a swim named after him down the deeps if i remember ,Johns corner .

What happened to the Castlemere fish ? Did they get sold on to Pool Hall or somewhere the other year ?

did castlemere have any fish? i thought they were everyone elses fish but not there own! i wouldnt piss on em if they were
on fire.

Last thing (about 5years ago) I heard about Castlemere it was snide out with cats. Boilie Machine was the biggest 28 to 32lb

Didn't it loose quite a few to a fish kill...

Then what was left was netted and flogged?

It lost fish to fish thieves from the Castlemere syndicate such as Colclough...

Who pretended the fish were kosher in the series on Castlemere which ran in Carpworld... Irony... the same people stole fish from Birch Grove around the same time...

Then it was netted by Beefy and his cronies again to take them to Castlemere.....

That's why there are a couple of trees still in the water...they were put there by regulars to stop more being pinched...

was "park pool" originally called "castlemere" i'm confused

Yep

Sorry Paul, I meant Castlemere not Lowton

yes paul the trees were cut down into the water to stop them renetting the lake, if we hadnt done this then big orange and the fully scaled fish would now be in castlemere. A mate of mine released his fish that he had had in his own pool into lawton at around the same time 13 small fish, singles. These bastards should never wet a line again.Im glad that castlemere is now no more and it looks like lawton is on the up, get in, in your face castlemere, beefy, colclough and salty and anyone else who was in on the raping, they had the gaul to ask if i wanted a ticket after they had taken the fish, a meeting was arranged with the lawton lads after the carnage but only i turned up, think the lads thought its to late now, but i wanted to know more, then they asked for my silence for a ticket, i spoke to you paul and tim paisley about the possibility of getting our fish back but it came to nothing. i do remember that tim was very angry about his common that went missing, they also nicked fish from tixall wides canal and i heard capesthorne was also targeted.There was a publicity ban on the water, strange that they would do this, carnt think why.

does anybody know how i can get a copy of the article bout castlemere in carpworld ??? issue no,date,year etc for a back issue,phone no ????

I think it was circa '91 . . titled Castlemere by Steve Colclough

Carpworld used to print an index of all articles & contributors,
should be easy to find which issues your after with a copy, tracking
down those issues may be a little trickier.

conkers, I have got a copy somewhere, but it will take me a few days to find it. Let me have your email address and I'll send a copy.

why do you want owt on the place

Funny how people never admitted to being a member of the toe-rag syndicate too...no shame some people.

the lot of them want grenading.

fcuk me you all bang on like it was yesturday.
it was 20 yrs ago.
let it go.

it was 1995 mate, sounds like you was one of em, i'll never forget it no matter how long ago it was, hope it never happens to your favourite lake. Nice first post me owd flerter.

i was 14 in 1995 so it wasnt me! i fish it now and yes russell 'censored' salt did exactly that to us before he robbed the syndicate fees and left us high and dry so i do know how it feels.

As for everyone slating 'castlemere' now, its a joke. there is a new owner who has stocked with bought fish and trying to get rid of the shite reputation that russell gave it. mite take a while though!!

I feel sorry for the guys who lost fish from Lawton - its not far from me and I know its a good water - but I am also aware of the last few months at Castlemere and Russ stitched them all - took the subs and ran. The water has been taken over by a young guy who means well and has high hopes. Sometimes the flush of youth can promise more than reality but that improves with age. Give him a break and let the past stick to the barsteward who committed the crime

Well let's name the names who are crooks in this sad saga, so that hopefully they never rip anyone else off in carp fishing ever again....

Russell Salt = Crook

Steve Colclough = Crook

Beefy (full name needed, I'm sure others will name) = Crook

russ salt has ripped castlemere off, fukcing ace, to me this is poetic justice, he has ripped off the syndicate that ripped us off, brilliant just like a hollywood script, what goes around comes around, just remember scumbags you reap what you sow, my seed is clean and i will have my harvest. I wish the new guy well at castlemere, but would you like to live at 25 cromwell road after what happened there, i think not, this new lad would be better choosing a different lake with no history, as would anyone who is thinking of joining the lake, only a fool would join.

Beefy...surname Heath don't know the cvnts first name except he is about 5ft tall and 10ft wide with a beard...good looking bloke.

We may as well credit Mr Colclough for all his accomplishments;

The ILLEGAL syndicate he set up on Knighton in the early 90's,
which when it was finally settled in court cost the farmer he
tapped up over £40k in court costs & fines as he held no access
or fishing rights to the water !!

Naturally Mr Colclough had sailed off into the sunset by this time to
wreak his magic elsewhere . .

ok then lads i got the water now wots the problem when it happend i was wot 5 so i carnt get the blame for any of it and syndicates dont just come up like that wots rong with trying to get a good name over the last 3 years i have spent alot of money and i anit having any body put me down if they do or they want to talk let me NO

'he has ripped off the syndicate that ripped us off, brilliant just like a hollywood script, what goes around comes around, just remember scumbags you reap what you sow,'

I think you miss the point, there wasnt one member left on there from when they took the fish from lawton, so no we havnt reaped anything!!

I'm pretty sure everyone here would wish you all the best with the lake fella,
the above is detailing 'that robbing shower of shite' that ran it before you,
whom, are all named in Mr Selmans post . .

Is it right that Salty netted it and sold what he could to Pool Hall before
you took it over?

yes that is right. we have counted 9 20lb+ carp on poolhalls website that are from park pool. not to mention any cats and commons that arnt that recongniseable!

russell is a C@NT.
He sold them fish and nicked everyones money, he promised everyone there money back but i think only 2 people did.

the thing you lads are'nt getting is this, salty and the other scumbags ripped us off, tim paisley, the potteries angling society and who knows who else and yet you muppets still joined his water, whatever for? they are serial rip off merchants, you joined a water that was set up with other peoples fish,you were quite happy to fish for stolen fish, english fish, so it was ok, if they had been foreign fish no one would have joined! right!
you play with fire then you WILL get burned.He who takes up the sword will die by the sword.I will never fish the lake. Join a water with no skeletons in its cupboards.Bye the way how many of the 9 twentys in poolhall are our fish not yours, i carnt stop pissing myself what a bunch of clowns, we had no warning, you did and still you joined, its time you woke up.

just had a quick scan at poolhalls website

feck me looks like a window lickers day out
rubber helmets and all

I understand your feelings mate but its of no value to have a go at yet another group of victims. I am sure that if the newer syndicate members were aware of the history of the water they may not have joined. The issue is everyone wants to be secret squirrel etc and such info only comes to lite when it goes bad. Try a search on castlemere and you wouldn't find much info a few yrs back. I'm sure you are not the only one who would like to talk to the thieving barstewards - you lost your fish as did they, they also lost cash as did possibly did yourself - theres no need to laugh at their mistakes - afterall you are members of the same club lol. And before you ask - yes I to was a sucker

As to the fish you are possibly correct Pool hall fish are castlemere fish are lawton fish - I bet that does'nt stop the pool hall anglers paying their day tickets

SOS so when ever you join a lake you ask to see receipts for all the fish do you?? dont make me laugh. half the fish up stoke have been moved from one lake or another. ever fished for the goldendale common?? where was that moved from again??
Get a grip, moving fish was more common 20 yrs back than it is today.

bit of a hot potato this little baby

tell you wot sos pop down and se me see who the censored cow boy is i dont think you no me do you

bravo you've lost me mate? pop down and see you? i fish local waters so no doubt we will meet one day, is this some sort of threat?

why has every body got to put me down on wot iam trying to do a threat thats the least of my worrys mate

if you have just taken over the syndicate without previously fishing castlemere then thats fine, if you were in the syndicate before and knew the script about lawton and still joined then i have no sympathy for you or the others in the syndicate, because the water has bad form. Theres no way would i want to come to castlemere or whatever its now called.

mate i wouldnt even let you come to the gate

Skills...

Quality

innit, sumat or nufing, shuttap i aint dun nufin or nufin!

is that the best you can do johnny dick,biz and soft arse sos cheap shot's at someone's spelling grow up saddo's otherwise it could be time

well shut up going on about it then get a life times change sonny boy and it seem's you have been left behind in ur own little time warp

Before you threaten SOS, you'll have to go through me you tw#t, and I don't hide behind names.

Do you really want to alienate yourself from the regions anglers, when as you've suggested you need their coin?

eh up rich hows it going mate. Nice to see your as mad as ever.

Hi mate, still here and barking, let's have a beer sometime!

im up for a beer mate, are you joining stoke this year i could be up for a ticket and we could have the crack like the good old days, i still laugh at the time you put my rig up the trees down the shallows! what an introduction! it would be nice to share a drink with ken and tec too.

yeah but its funny conkers coz man dem got
skills

hey dickey boy i'm shi**ing myself u retard bring it on oh and dont forget to bring all ur boy's

You're still hiding you prick, do some research, and then, if you're up for it make yourself known. Otherwise do one prick!

I doubt Ritchie and Sos will have to "bring" all their boys - I'm sure plenty will volunteer mate

i hate it when all you faceless dullard's (as dickie boy called ME )pick on me go and bully someone else and what research should i do

PM SOS

Theres quite a few fish in Castlemere,
Only fished it for for three months before I done the off to Aus.
Here's the last one I caught a couple of weeks before I flew out.
Still nice looking fish in there



Keith

is'nt the dale common a moved fish from a certain park lake... which YOU are fishing for whats the diffrence??

So you equate the removal of one double figure fish from a park lake full of doubles,
is the same, as numbers of fish being removed (stolen) from a syndicate where the
paying members have no knowledge of whats going on??

(that applies to what Beefy/Colclough did to the lawton syndi as much as what
Salty did to the Castle Mere syndi)


Your f@kin clueless, go crawl back under yer stone invertebrate . .



Great first post by the way

bollox

sounds to me that this face is a castlemere member, or whatever its called now, as no run says we lost money, no one lost money over the dale fish, colclough and his croneys only took the syndicate over in order to get the fish, they had no intention of running a pucka fishery, cheap way of getting fish dont you think.

so its not about the fish then sos its the money???

less of the threats please girls, go find a bike shed some where and sort it out but not on here

the thing is undercover, obviously neither action can be justified it was wrong what colclough did and its wrong what the lad did over the fish from tunstall park, but theres a big differance between the two, it just depends where you draw the line, lawton was almost completely emptied bar afew fish, a thirty, and a number of upper twenties and dozens of twenties and doubles, the dale fish was a single 17lber, you would hardly miss the tunstall fish, but yes it was wrong, and yes i am fishing for it, maybe you are or have done, also to a certain extent it is about the money, we paid for castlemeres
fish, and lost our own fishing paradise, the deception and underhandedness was, is hard to forgive, we lost collectively a lot of money, tunstall park lost a double. If you look hard enough a lot of our waters have skeletons in there cupboards, maybe i do harp on about lawton but it really was that good, all the best to you who ever you are, you must know me to know where im fishing i dont hide behind a psuedo name, everyone knows me as sos,if you were to make enquiries you will find im a decent bloke and do care about the fish, but we are all sticking hooks in them and dragging them out iam as guilty as you.I have never moved any fish and never will, its a shame the dale fish is where it is but i will never move it, i hear it has a price on its head thou.

I caught a common from Tunstall at 9lb in 1977...it would be nice to think it was the forty now living in Goldendale, but probably not....

I don't know anyone who cares more for the welfare of the fish than SOS, mate...

Well said Paul

Just hearing the word "Castlemere" makes me want to go outside and vomit...

For those of you who ARE interested. lawton Hall still has some very nice fish in it. The rumours of them all going walkies are a bit far fetched to be honest as I have seen over a dozen recent pictures of some of the nicest looking fish in the North West. There are over 20 known 20 plus fish in the lake and the biggest would honour any Northern Anglers photo album.

It seems that the removal of some of the snags has put the fish on the feed. A nice lake run by a proper fisherman for a change.

The rumours are'nt rumours they are the truth, but yes lawton does have some good fish in there now, the scum bags could'nt net it again because some trees fell in over night plus it was in 1995 so the fish what were left have grown on.

....and Castlemere is crap.....the cream always rises to the top....

dead right

SOS I think I know who you are :@) Lucky those trees fell in when they did eh!

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. oh and HA!

yes mate it was incredible good fortune that they should have fell in when they did. Seems like the lads fishing it now are reeping the benefits of that fortune, good luck lads.

Enjoyed my time down lawton 91 to 95. I see russ salt everyday he works at the same place as me. What a spineless censored he is, would smack him if i could get away with it. It was his net that they netted lawton with.

Tell Salty he will never be forgiven by the Lawton lads and best keep his head down....

hey up kez long time no see mate, i reckon the lads from castlemere would like a talk to salty seeing as they got ripped of by him also, read previous pages of this thread.Salty,colclough,beefy and dechecko are all scumbags for what they did, i would'nt p@ss on them if they were on fire, well maybe in there mouths.

Aup sos hope ye well mate. I havnt spoken to him and won't ever. He doesn't reconise me and i'd rather keep it that way.

I have received a very long hard copy letter from Steve Colclough outlining the stocking of Castlemere and defending the Castlemere syndicate. He claims to have sent this to me by e-mail but I have not received them.

I will study the letter and then put several questions to Steve which he may not be able to answer since he has not been involved in fishing or Castlemere since 1993.... I suspect that he may not have been made fully aware of some of the goings on, and if he presses ahead with threatened legal actions against myself and this site, he and his buddies are going to be preoccupied with finding extensive paper audits/trails I'm going to be asking for...all of which can be found elsewhere... I also have photos here of fish I and my friends have caught that have ended up elsewhere, Steve...

He has applied for membership of the Forum and I have granted this so he is free to challenge any accusations and give his side of the story...

FW members wishing to respond to anything Steve or his friends wish to put here need not fear any deletion for legal reasons etc, as happens on other forums....

The truth needs to be out and finally put to bed....

excellent, bring it on. It's taken 14 years to get to this, 1st question, who caught the boilie machine and then took it to castlemere, that will do for starters.

Also he says he's had nothing to do with castlemere since 1993, yes whatever steve, i personally had a meeting with colclough and his cronies after the decimation of lawton in 1995, and he was definately involved then.

Sos, I have asked him the question about the Boilie Eating Machine mirror since it's removal from Lawton to Castlemere took place before Beefy got the netting rights (cough!) to take carp from Lawton....

Steve Colclough has full rights to respond here, without any edit...

i reckon we'll have a long wait. He'd be better holding his hands up i cannot see him coming out of this with any credit, but we'll see

Tin hats at the ready !!!!

Steve Colclough has assurred me that he left the Castlemere syndicate before the netting of Lawton at the same time as he sold his shop, so he could not have been a party to the Lawton netting...

He also regrets the theft of the common from Birch Grove by a member of the Castlemere syndicate when on a week let by him. Again he had no part in this and did not know it had occurred until some time later...

If Steve is telling me the truth then I unreservedly apologise for any comments I have made about him and his character, and I withdraw them totally...

What was the problem with the Lawton netting etc a few FW members have asked me.

Well firstly a large mirror known as the Boilie Eating Machine was caught at Lawton by rod and line and moved by a member of the Castlemere syndicate into Castlemere....

In terms of the netting, Stoke AS had the lease on Lawton at £4000 a year for two years and issued permits at £150 to a local carp syndicate.

The committee of Stoke AS was controlled and dominated by Beefy (Dave Heath) who was a founder member of the Castlemere syndicate. In 1994 Castlemere had a complete fish kill and was barren.

Beefy negotiated a deal between Stoke AS and the Castlemere syndicate to purchase fish from Lawton to stock Castlemere again. Now it is easy to see Stoke AS and Castlemere as two separate entities, but in fact they were not, Beefy ran Stoke AS and also was prominent in Castlemere. There may well have been invoices etc but whether any real money exchanged hands is open to debate. I'm assurred proper Section 30 consents were obtained, but I would have thought it would be difficult to obtain a sample for the consent to move fish into Castlemere if there were no fish present, but that may not have been needed and Beefy could manipulate the paperwork anyway being both the vendor and purchaser of the fish....

Beefy and the Castlemere syndicate in the guise of Stoke AS net Lawton and remove most of the fish that the carp lads had paid £150 to fish for.....

However, the key point is that Stoke AS did not OWN the fish they sold to the Castlemere syndicate. They belonged to the owners of the estate and Stoke AS had no legal right to sell or remove these fish - this then technically becomes fish theft, with Castlemere accepting fish which they were not legally entitled to buy, if indeed any money changed hands as Beefy was the main player in both. Beefy knew perfectly well that the fish did not belong to Stoke AS and were not theirs to sell or remove, as did the entire Castlemere syndicate and Stoke AS...

I trust that answers any questions....

The thing is paul, colclough and beefy and salty and dechecko took over the running of lawton in order to obtain the fish, we paid our money thinking we would have 12 months fishing, but we were never going to get 12 months because they knew from the off that they would be having our fish asap.Indeed they had already caught and removed "the boilie machine" the first we knew of it was when it appeared in carp talk. We were gobbed smacked, but they clammed up about who caught and removed it, some lads were in both syndicates, we were all good mates but this sad episode split everyone apart.

SOS and the other Lawton guys. I'll log onto this over the next few days and answer any questions you put to me. I was informed of the thread a week or so ago and astounded by the rubbish being posted. I no longer fish. Have not been involved with anything to do with angling since about 1992. I am not going to defend the other sydicate commitee, just my own part. I'll take part in a question and answer forum but if it can't be done in a proper manner (ie, without the playground threats etc) then i'll log off and leave you no better informed. I'll also not answer anything from someone anonymous.

For your own part, I think you are forgetting the fact that there were two seperate involvements of the Castlemere committee and Lawton. The first was around 1990 (91 ?) when an Irish developer obtained the site and was going to stop the fishing there whilst Hall was redeveloped. It was lads from your end who asked if we could do something to help and despite never having fished the Hall (you lot told me it was a closed shop when I enquired in the eighties) we got involved and negotiated a lease with the Irish contractor. He wanted ten grand but we got him to agree four. Castlemere and I put up the original money along with Nick at the tackle shop and we then looked at how we could get our money back. I cant remember the fine detail but I think about 18 of you paid £150 and Castlemere had two tickets for letting to its own members and the rest was recouped on forty quid day only coarse passes of which I had 4 to let by my shop and Kidsgrove angling had four. I wasnt really interested in being involved but the passes for my shop were usefull and the two carp passes for the Castlemere lads were good as they had the chance to fish somewhere previously out of reach (The Hall)

Yes we held a meeting regarding the forming of that syndicate and discussed Lawton members being given preferential listing on the Castlemere waiting list but that was it. The second year which i'm guessing was 1992, I resigned from Castlemere and have never fished since. I think you are recalling this 1991/2 meeting instead of any meeting after which Stoke AS took it on. The Irish contractor was booted off for not completing work which was part of his peppercorn deal. After that I wasn't involved but believe Dave (Beefy) picked up the lease for Stoke AS (via the council ?? dont know). I haven't a clue how you guys fished it thereafter. Did you have to join Stoke AS or was there a separate syndicate ? I'm guessing there was and maybe a meeting was held but I can assure you mate. It wasn't me. When Stoke AS took it on I was working in Saudi Arabia building a bleedin Oil Refinery so dont associate me with it SOS.

I truly believe that Castlemere was totally clean at the point of my resignation in 1992. Why the hell would I serialize its renovation and supply pictures of the fish to a national magazine if something iffy was going on. Someone mentioned the publicity ban. Wrong. There wasn't one. We merely stated that if fish photos were published then the venue should be stated as a Shropshire mere. This to protect the location as we were worried about thieves.

Reference the original fish transfers to Castlemere, we relied on Beefy because he was experienced through his involvement with Stoke AS. I saw invoices, Severn Trent documents and other stuff that actually formed part of the Castlemere slide show I toured the country with. If I was somehow involved in a totally illegitimate project I did rather a lot to promote my involvement don't you think.

SOS and others. If you lost fish from Lawton it was after my tenure. Ask me a question and i'll come back to you. For the record Rob Dececco left shortly after me. Please enlighten me as to how you gained your passes after the Irish guy flitted and it became Stoke AS. If everyone was so aggrieved why didn't anyone write to me ? My address was on all of the correspondence. Guys, time clouds the facts. I'm actually with you with sympathy over the netting of Lawton. If I had still been on the commitee i'm sure I would have opposed it on moral grounds. Because of the matter becoming to my attention a few weeks ago I have met with Russ Salt and asked for his version of what happened. He tells me that Lawton was indeed netted by a Water Authority approved agent who worked on behalf of Stoke AS. This agent sorted out the paperwork. In correspondence with Paul (Selmen) he asked me if section 30's were involved etc. Truth is I don't know what one is and probably the guy who posted that he chucked his own doubles collection into the Hall didn't either !! I simply dont know. What I do know is I wasn't involved at that time. You all collectively seem to think it was 1995 ? Not me dude. It was all hard hat and camel meat for me then

SOS. And by the way Salty told me the netting was a disaster and only 3 fish were caught. Maybe it wasn't quite the raping it was described as ?

Steve, if you cast your mind back to 1995, when the "netting" took place the lads were in uproar about it, a meeting was arranged at the royal oak pub in rode heath, a place where we, as a group used to go on a tuesday for a social, you yourself used to go now and again,i asked the lads to come to the said meeting, but they said whats the point, the damage is done now, i tried to pursuade them to come and get it sorted but they would'nt. So in the end i went on my own to face you, salty and beefy and some other castlemere lads, you said to me to keep quiet and i'll get a castlemere ticket and i can still fish for the same fish! Beefy did show me some paperwork from the river authority, i would'nt know if it was genuine or fake.Words were exchanged and i left, and to this day i've had no contact with you or any of the castlemere committee.This meeting took place in 1995 after the raping of the lake, not before.Also its potteries AS not stoke. Steve do you deny having fish from the wides, to put in castlemere, who caught the boilie machine then put it in castlemere, we gained our passes from you or beefy, steve your honestly telling me you knew nothing of this, sorry i don't believe you.This agent for the water authority was beefy right? As for having 3 fish out your having a laugh, i was still fishing it up too 1998 and the fish stocks were no where near what they were, one of these fish just happened to be the "long twenty two" did it, and "two scale" and "the boilie machine" makes three does it, steve if you put photos of all the fish that were in castlemere i'll match them up with my photos and i bet there will be more than three matches,would the trees have fallen in if we thought that only three had gone, my mates fish went in when he filled his own small pool in at home, as i said 13 fish all singles.As for writing to you leave it out why would i, i came down the pub and talked face to face with all of you. You and beefy tried to soften the blow by offering some members a ticket to castlemere, andy loring, for one, he was told that if he accepted a ticket he would be classed as bad as you lot, so he never bought one, Paul newall "joe" and john "the wad" were two that did have tickets off you for castlemere, we've not met since, although i've bumped into joe twice whilst shopping.How many fish are there in lawton now steve, including the said singles we put in, 18-20, we put 13 in, so when we were fishing it in the 80's there were only 8 fish in! try putting a nought on. i await your reply. So steve you've been living in ignorant bliss all these years about lawton and castlemere have you, i don't think so.

SOS. I still believe you are mistaking the early nineties meeting with any meeting regarding Potteries AS (sorry not Stoke). Its a waste of time talking to me about the names of the fish in Lawton because I never caught one out of there and cant recall seeing one caught on the 2 or 3 occasions I fished it. For the record I only fished Castlemere three or four times and caught one (Wides) double. I remember an uproar when Castlemere formed the original Lawton Syndicate and wondered at the time why the hell we got involved ? Under my watch We had the rights for 2 years. The Irish contractor contacted me on the third year (1993 ??) for another £4k but I told him to go away as I was no longer involved. For legal reasons I did check out his position and found out he had not carried out sufficient investment so he lost the terms of his deal at the Hall. I honestly dont know how it was fished after that. Was it a "closed shop" free for all again ??

SOS, I remained friends with the other three founders albeit I had resigned from the committee and sydicate. I had only a distant interest from that point. In 1993 I went to Holland where I was based for most of the year as a QS on the new build extention of the BP Nerefco Oil Refinery at Europoort.
In 1994 I was in Essex at BP Coryton and in 1995 to 96 I was for the most part in Saudi Arabia in Yanbu, SAMREF refinery. Fishing and my obsession with it had been knawing away at my marriage and I walked away from fishing in 92 to try and retrieve it. The shop hadn't worked out and i sold my shares and that was it for me. The best paid work I could find was overseas so again I was not spending enough time at home and me and the missus eventually called it a day. That meant I was free to chase the big work overseas and the Middle East was the best place to be. I worked in the Middle and Far east for over a decade but finally knocked it on the head when my business partner was shot and murdered by Al Queida in 1994.

SOS, I know it got messy. Maybe Beefy and Salty have questions to answer but I can't answer them for you on their behalf dude.
Finally, yes we had fish from the Wides. I refered to them in the articles and slideshow. Hardly the action of someone with something to hide. We has an any two signatory chq account at Castlemre and I signed, with Salty, a chq for the Wides fish. My understanding was it was a cast iron legal transfer. If it wasn't then ignorance of the correct procedure is my defence. We trusted Beefy to handle that part. I wouldn't know where to start. I'm open to meet up SOS. I won't have time to carry on a long debate on here so if you want, and anyone else for that matter, wants to meet up and talk this through i'm up for it. We can't change the past but it would be nice to put some semblence of order and reality into the eroded folklore. Paul has my contact details. Its with you mate.

Bunch of pricks if you ask me surely these guys have a police charge someware to answer??

How come you say that your friend was murdered by al queida,they got the wrong one, in 1994 and so came back to uk, but you tell us that you were in saudi in 95-96, sorry steve im confused@~!"£, Im absolutely positive that the meeting with you and beefy and others was down the royal oak AFTER the raping in 1995 and NOT a potteries meeting,i had no wish to join potteries AS. It sounds to me like your confused, after all you came back to uk in 1994! You won't have the time to debate things on here how convenient, i've already had a meeting with you back in 1995, there will be no more meetings, you've always been silver tongued steve and it looks like you still are, you've still not answered my first question, who caught "boile machine" and moved it to castlemere, oh of course you don't know the names of any lawton fish do you, as for ignorance of the rules nice try steve but your too slippery for that,all of my posts on this matter are true and none is down to folklore steve, i was there, i am here to make sure it stays as a warning to anyone who has any thoughts of dealing with you. Everything is in order steve, you beefy and the others can silver tongue as much as you like, the lads that lost the best fishing they've ever had also know what went on. We are still owed the money for the fishing we lost that year 1995. Another point i've known about the names of fish and also what they look like without the need to fish the water they swim in, "heather the leather" to name one, i've never fished yateley but i could recognise that fish a mile off, and so could you.If you've got the "time" steve just answer the question of boilie machine, you must know or has time clouded things. I will find the time to look on this forum for your answers.

SOS. Sorry. Trying to come back to you on your late last night post. I put together a hasty reply this morning. Meant 2004 not 1994 when my mate got shot. Not something that should be discussed here and it was not a well thought out post. It was all over the national and local news and its got nothing to do with this debate so lets drop that one.

Your question. i havn't got a bleedin clue who caught boile machine. I really dont know. You state you and the Lawton lads are still owed money for the fish you lost that year (95 ?). So you are now claiming ownership ?? SOS, you really are confusing stuff with the original syndicate i was involved with which bailed the water out from closure by the Irish contractor. I really wish i hadn't sorted that out for you and that the paddies had kicked you all off it and filled it in like they threatened. Then we wouldnt even be having this debate.

The bottom line is this mate. Lawton was unregulated and nobody was paying the piper. When he (the paddies) came along to collect nobody stepped up to pay and so he sent in the plague of rats (im sure you'll like that one teed up !!) I stupidly helped you out and this is the thanks. Why didn't the Lawton lads get together and hold a meeting and decide who was going to approach these people and if so what to offer them ? You were fishing it for nothing at the time and scaring off anyone who came and asked what the deal was. These Irish heavies came in and none of you had the gaul to sort out a plan, raise some cash and face them out. So what did you do. Ask Colclough. He can sort this type of crap out. So I (Castlemere ) did and to recoup our money we worked it that you had to fork out £150 each. Was I (Castlemere) supposed to have stood that ?

SOS, it was a bleedin bind and I had to put up personal money to secure fishing for a bunch of guys I barely knew. I did it out of respect of a request from my friend Nik Nixon at Kidsgrove tackle. You havn't got a clue mate.

Here's food for thought for everyone reading this. Its probably different now because every current water filled hole is revenue for someone. But going back in the sixties thro to the eighties, fishing clubs were virtually 100% run by voluntary committees. People who gave up their own time and effort to sort out the fishing that enabled the man in the street to be able to buy a simple card that gave him a seasons pleasure all via the efforts of the invisible few.

As an example, the Mangrove. I dont know where that name derived from but it was certainly not called that when I fished it in the early seventies. I wont name the club that had it because that would give away its location and I haven't a clue whether thats still a secret or not. So i'll just refer to it as F and G angling society. I had a pass which was shillings and pence originally. I fished it with my dad (not carp although we saw the monsters) and drifted in and out of membership until one day it was suddenly a no way in. I dont know who took it on but someone obviously saw its (carp) potential and you couldn't get a ticket anymore. It may have been Tim. It could have been somebody before him but the bottom line was that we (me and dad) were merely paying punters so goodbye mister chips. Somebody offered the owner big bucks for exclusivity and that was that. Business is business. Maybe we should have recognised the opportunity and took the plunge. However we did't so cant complain can we !

I'll go back to the Castlemere stockings. Paul (Selman) has opened my eyes. I have corresponded with Paul over the Castlemere fish stockings and he asked me if we had certain paperwork. I know we had an invoice from Potteries AS for the Wides fish coz I signed the cheque to pay for them. I remember other paperwork which gave me a comfort that they were cast iron legal transfers. If there was a missed procedure then i unfortunately didn't query it out of ignorance. I didn't query it because I didn't know it existed. Lewis Hamilton gets into his grand prix car and assumes its race legal. I doubt if he asks his pit crew if they have authorisation to use this diffuser and that one. Same dog SOS. I saw a lot of paperwork on all of the Castlemere fish transfers because I insisted on it. If it wasn't all in order then I'll put my hand up but for gods sake, i tried to make sure it was in order. This applies upto 1992 and thereafter it was not me dude.

Finally, i'll comment that you are very judgemental on a situation that you could well have taken control of yourself. You had free fishing. You were scaremongering others away from your sacred haven. Along came the Irish wolf and you only had to find £4k to satisfy him and keep him at bay. Surely you had it in you to organise twenty or so lads to find £200 a piece to secure your paradise. It was simple mate. Organise a meeting. Outline the plan and collect the money. Sign the lease and put your name up as the responsible person for the money and hope everyone coughs up. Its history now mate but if you find yourself in that situation again please take the bull by the horns and dont leave ir to others. That way you wont have to slag off the ones who did put their neck on the block whilst you fiddled and Rome burned.

I dont need to be on here answering this rubbish. I'm only here because my integrity has been questioned and i had not been aware of this festering crap. You have declined a meeting to air your grievances which in the circumstances I think may have been a good thing to seek closure. On that basis i'll stay live for another 24 hrs and come back with anything you pose. Other than that get your facts straight. If you want to slander me on a national forum then you need to be absolutely sure you are correct. Continue and i'll sort it out with you in court and not via this media. You'll need deep pockets mate.

Carpyd4n. Shut up or post your name. You haven't (I assume) got a clue. You'll be telling me next that Colin Stagg murdered Racheal Mickell.

Over to you DS.

steve, i've no idea who these paddies are or were, these people are news to me, no im not claiming ownership, i,we paid for 12 months fishing, not the fish, and did'nt get it, we were fishing for ghosts, i for one never asked you or potteries AS to take over the fishing, from what i can remember "savage ron" had the running for awhile, why would we ask you to take over the fishing when we had it for free, you "castlemere syndicate" WANTED the lease in order to net the fish simple.You said that you sorted the fishing for the respect of a friend, nik nixon, nik is a friend of mine steve, so was it for nik or us? nik was not one of us the lawton syndicate as run by clarey, i car'nt remember if nik ever fished it, i can soon ask him, certainly i car'nt ever remember seeing him on there,i understand from nik that you had a "disagreement".True we were trying to keep people off anyone would if they had what we had, and you, "castlemere" wanted. We only had to find £4000, for something we already had!
The people i'm slagging off, nicked our fish. I've heard that you have a few quid steve, so i'd better leave it at that, i'm a working bloke and don't want to loose my house, my pockets are not as deep as your's, so much for no school boy bully tactic's, i wondered how long it would take, take care steve.

SOS. your last post gives me some comfort. There are definately two differnt time periods here. In the very early nineties me and Nik had tackle shops and we were friends through the sport.
Nick had been trading for years prior to me and helped me develop my shop. In return I gave him access to my existing bait recipes and we developed further mixes together. He gave me massive advice on how to be more open eyed in that I needed to whoo the match fraternity as well as the specimen guys. I worked hard to get both aspects right. Fcuk me the friday nights and Saturday nights spent trying to get casters to turn are inpregnated in my brain. I'm not completely sure of my facts here (purely due to time lapse) so if its wrong under cross examination then I apologise but, i,m of the belief that Nick asked me to get involved because the Irish contractor had got hold of the estate on a peppercorn rent. If it wasn't nick then it was someone else close to it. Either way I was given his details (can't remember by who) purely because someone picked up a number on one of his vans. Its a long time ago mate but I met with this guy at a pub in Trent Vegas and i'm pretty sure Nick was present. We organised and agreed a lease which sorted the fishing for a couple of years. I recall holding meetings about this with the other members of the Castlemere commitee and being hammered as we needed not get involved. After that period elapsed (92/93 ?) i wasn't involved anymore. There was obviously a secondary deal done but I haven't a clue what was involved. I dont know if Potteries AS picked it up immediately or a year later or so than the lapse of the Irish contactor tenure.

SOS. Iv'e calmed down a bit since I last read the forum on this so I wont be pursuing it any further. I hit the roof when told of the posts and was ready to go legal to clear my name. However, angling already cost me one marriage and my current missus has seriously questioned my reason for pursuing it.

I'll make the following statement and thats the end from me.
I haven't fished forever and never will do again. The Castlmere syndicate was a fulfilment of a dream. Every anglers dream. Owning your own water with control over its future and its integrity was amazing. Unfortunataly such obsession comes with a price and for me it was a heavy burden in that it lost me 17 yrs marriage. Maybe a few of you out there should ponder that.

I dont know why Lawton was netted. I'm told only 3 fish were caught. I haven't a clue how Castlemere continued after its fish kill and where its new stock came from. Was Lawton netted because the future was blank and the fish were condemned. I absolutely don't know dude.

I'll still leave it open to have a beer. Im signing off now coz I really do have more pressing issues but I hope you appreciate the response to a very ancient argument and on that note , cheers and goodbye.

SOS. final word. God i'm wound up. You said you didn,t know about the Irish guys. Bludy hell they bought the Hall on a peppercorn deal in about 1990/1. They informed you guys fishing there that it was curtains. They didn't want you there on health and safety grounds while they developed the estate and it would be made out of bounds. Thats when we got involved and paid them and sorted out the syndicate. It was £4k for gods sake. Please dont tell me we should have stood that on behalf of a bunch of guys we hardly knew so they could continue to fish for free !!. You said you have no idea of who these paddies were. Well I do mate. I faced them up at the Springfields Hotel at Trent Vale and it wasn't a pleasant experience. That was the start of the Lawton syndicate I was involved with. We're all wise in hindsight mate and I really wish now i'd left that one in your capable hands.

Carpy d4n. Have you done your research yet mate. Know where i'm coming from ??? Its a good analogy, Spoon.

Football for a change.

The Sentinel forums are full of incredible rubbish telling Tony Pulis he hasn't got a clue. Should do this, should do that. All from people who haven't got a coaching badge between them. Stoke are Premier league for the first time since the Ark but he still gets hammered. I say this. I will critisize anyone who I think deserves it because they didn't perform to an expectaion of a determined role. However, I wont critisize someone who fails in a task that they took on for the sake of others who then become a panel of experts overseeing that mans failings. At leaast he tried !! If you want perfection take control. Be a leader or be led. But for pitys sake if you choose to be led then you sacrifice the option to bleat.

Steve

Sos.I'm back here again. A bit dissapointed there is no reply !!
I've had another day thinking about it all and reference your last post, "i've no idea who these paddies are or were" gave me complete peace of mind. Do you know what mate, I now believe you didn't. You were only concerned that your free fishing was under threat. You hadn't got a clue had you ? The only thing that bothered you was that you had lost your free fishing and the devil who you had to pay was Steve Colclough (Castlemere).

You mentioned Nik at Kidsgrove Tackle. You are right he never fished it buts that because like me, he had a tackle shop and believe me, that is one hell of a burden to keep you from fishing !!. Niks worry was the Lawton anglers were a massive part of his income so of course he wanted it to stay open.
Much of Niks income came from anglers fishing Lawton. Thats why he had an interest. Yes we fell out but that was a copyright issue over my (our) range of baits.

I am now satisfied that I should not worry about what is posted on here. My life dosen't change anyway because you and others have obviously been slagging me for years and as I didn't know, then ignorance was bliss. I simply hadn't realised. I'm not involved anymore so I'll leave you all to your petty little misinformed rubbish.

For christs sake SOS, you don't know why we got involved !!! You don't know about the Irish Contractor ?? You have made my day. I personally dont give a shite about what happened after 1992 but for you to not have understood why we first came to Lawtons rescue makes me belly laugh. From what I remember, we tried to make it accesible to anyone who was fishing there (for carp) and those on the rock and roll were given the option of fishing under their mates passes and so were still able to cast a line. Castlemere was already within its strict stocking plan so the inference that we took it on so we could net the (old and knackered) Lawton fish is completely laughable.

You are so far gone from the facts that its beyond belief. You were fishing for nowt and when that was taken away you just looked at the end of your nose and no further beyond. Absolute channelled vision rubbish. You didn't know about the Irish Contractor ?? IROALMAO.

For pitys sake man !!

What a classic.

bloody hell for what its worth! hi steve if you remember i paid you 160 quid for my ticket as did a maximum of 20 other anglers but when we added it up i think there where 22! then if correct you charged people 10 quid a night for guests if i remember hooky fished one night on there, first time i met him. rich allen also fished there remember dragging me up the pub rich and nearly killing me with the cigar smoke!!
the year.. defo after 91 poss 92 or 93! will have to check as i have a couple of pics with the date stamped on em somewhere. gary mitchell,gray tricket also on there in the early 90s.
there was also andy jones and mark inskip and joey who joined i believe they where the last of the 20 or 22 to join that year. As dave as said hes very pasionate about the place as i once was on wesa, i even remember dave heath(beefy) setting up on there in the mid -late 90s and paranoid of the fish nicking i sat in the bushes all night watching him just in case!!

just checked phots it was 91or 92 when i fished lawton for the first time i had a old chrysler alpine in rust brown and can remember taking john and gary up the cafe in kidsgrove and bits falling of the old girl as we drove throught the lights! pisa! after that i remember fishing it a few times but when it was a free for all but the years are blured a little.
i know sosas pissed of as he loved it down there didnt you have that white cosworth? lets hope the latest owners dont ruin it again by doing anything silly like dubiest stockings!!! the old uns wont take it and the orange and silver back,nelson are historic local fish. ps if anyone has pics of the largest fully 27/28 i would love to see em.

Yo Tim. Yes I remember and bloody hello to you. I honestly cant remember the exact figures we charged but the important thing at the time was to get our bloody money back. I dont want you to get involved in this stupid crap but SOS seems to think I was involved in this in 1995 or so and I know I absolutely was not. The stunning thing is he knows so much about me and Castlemere yet dosent even know why we got involved in the first place. Its difficult to remember dates because fishing seasons carry two years ie, 91/92 season. I'm sure in my mind it was 1991 when we first got involved because I know thats when I had my shop and let the day coarse passes from. By 92 I was definately out of it but SOS is completely convinced I was around the scene in 95 when the Hall was netted. I was furious when I read the crap on here a few weeks ago but when SOS posted last night that he didn't know anything about the Irish guys who came on and threatened total closure then my world was enlightened. I'm happy with that thought and it's made me smile all day. Unbelievable. I haven't a clue how you (if you are in) pay your dues to fish the Hall these days but I'm absolutely convinced of one thing and thats that SOS aint organised the syndicate !!

Good luck and God bless

quite right daves fuming as the water was never quite the same and he has a strong passion for the place. having known him for a nbumber of years hes not one to kerb his words! this was 17-18 years ago and things where a little different in some peoples eyes back then, the whole fish movement of the 80s etc happened on a lot of waters. look at bigmoor and the ocean in winsford there fish ended up everywhere. right no but it happened. im sure weve all done things both in life and angling that we regret whether thats a marriage or job fook up all because of our passion or because we thort it was right at the time. you cant change the past fella nor can dave but lifes to dam short to carry on vendettas or hatred for almost 20 years a young lad of 30 and a really good mate has recently killed himself he to was once passionate and as keen as us all. his life taken because he let things get to him and mess with his head. like i said lifes to short.

Just had a phonecall from SOS to say he will reply as soon as possible.The power in his area is off at the moment so his router won't work!!!!

sorry steve but as hooky as said i've had a power cut and lost my connection, i had wrote an extensive answer steve, but alas because my power was off i had to type with my laptop using the battery power, that then ran out, i tried to save my reply but its not coming up, maybe mr selman has a copy of it if he has then he can put it up, if not then tomorrow i will rewrite it as best as i can remember it, see you tomorrow.

steve had nowt to do with the rape of lawton . It was after he had gone. Steve was sound , bit bait mad but sound. Last time i spoke to you steve was about 1998 at middleport club carp do . Tim that car was a wreck . The snag removal vote. The boilie machine and the RAPE were all after steve had resigned

SOS. pmsl at your pooter giving up. Now that is something to get angry about.

Kez. Thanks for that. This is the point I'm trying to make. I'm not defending Castlemere I'm defending me. Its really difficult getting the years totally correct because time fades the memory and I qualify for Saga insurance now so that tells its own story.

To roll up what my involvement was I'm pretty sure the calendar was something as follows.

1988 we sign up for a delapidated lake and start renovation.
1988 to early 1990 lake (Castlemere renovated)
1990 I open a tackle shop
1990 (June) Start of first Castlemere fishing season
1991 Castlemere get involved with Lawton and form Syndicate
1992 I sell shop and resign from Castlemere

1993 (latest) must have been the end of the Castlemere lease with the Irish guys.

Dont know what happened after that. I could probably get a good briefing from Salty but no one on here seems to have much belief in what he might have to say so I was hoping to debate out the story on here. Obviously Potteries AS picked it up sometime after Castlemere but I don't know whether that was immediately (93) or a year or so later. I also dont know how you fished it for Carp during the Potteries AS tenure. Was it a seperate sydicate associated with Potteries ? Was it Castlemere in conjuntion with Potteries or did you just buy a Potteries ticket ? I havn't a clue and thats why I'm here. It was not a nice experience seeing my name getting pulled apart on here for something I had no involvement with. I think I'm a decent bloke and i've already said, If I had been involved, I'm pretty sure I would have opposed the netting as i do believe it was morally wrong. Maybe, and this is just conjecture, Beefy and Potteries were told that the Hall was to be shut to fishing ? I assume Potteries don't have the fishing now so something must have prompted them to drop it. When did they pull out ?

SOS. I'm truly sorry that the Lawton lads had such a turbulent time through the early to mid nineties. My involvment was less than two seasons mate and I was well gone before the netting. I can't put right the wrong of others and I think Tim made a fair comment when he pointed out that Lifes to short. SOS, your anger and despair is understandable but its Beefy and Salty who ran Castlemere from 92 (latest 93) onwards. Its possible they have rational and good reasons for whatever they did but that's for them to come forward and defend should they feel inclined to.

I've come on here mate with my heart on my sleeve. I don't fish anymore. I didn't need to come and debate it as it wont change my life one bit. I guess its a subject that you will obviously struggle to find closure on but please SOS. dON'T BE TELLING EVERYONE i NETTED YOUR LAKE AND STOLE YOUR FISH BECAUSE HAND ON HEART MATE, I DIDN'T (damn caps lock, can't be bothered to retype it)

to be fair steve i think the main problem is that for a couple of years your name was associated with the place and most people assumed you were still involved.93,94 what with the potteries take over (beefy) it wouldnt be difficult to come to that conclusion with your close association with him.
the question is now what of the future for lawton hall?? is the fishing on there ever to be secured long term, are the new owners (who i know well) capable of and knowledgable of running a proper syndicate, are the fish stocks safe in terms of new additional stock been added, is the 300 pound asking fee reasonable in terms of fish sizes (two 30lbers),have the old fish got much longer to go, Lawton hall has the potentiol to be one of the best local syndicate waters both in terms of beuty and quality its up to the new owners to implement actions to achieve this. the thing is we all see things differently dave or my ideal water maybe totallt different to someone elses and thats where the problem lies. gdale would make a cracking little 10 man syndycate unfortuanatly the problems getting this sorted are beyond mere mortals and it resigned to become even more of a censored hole as the years go by.
shame as the big girl deserves more respect than to have people casting spinners at her or fishing snaggy swims off there rods, but hay its a free for all like lawton once was. i hope dave were not typing the same sort of replies in 10 years time regards the dale and how we could of or should of done this or that to protect the water and its fish.
ok sermon over im off for some more blanking on the brick pit!
ps HOOKEY seriously well done fella not seen you for the last couple of weeks but congrats, have to admit you got there doing it your way, opened my eyes a bit fella. well done.

Tim. Thanks mate. I made then point about the association in previous posts. I understand how I was linked because I wrote the magazine articles so Castlemere was synonymous with my name.
I just need to convince SOS now and I can sleep tight once more.

I don't know what or how you guys are fishing Lawton at present but if there is any doubt over its future than for Gods sake get together as a unit and sort it with the owners. If you sit by then somebody else will seize the opportunity.

Cheers dude

tim did you get in behind rimmer after he had it to?

seems to be not the way forward?

ie not the way you catch that one ay?

interesting stuff this lawton talk it needed to be sorted one way or another what do you think sos?

Cheers Tim he's certainly a hard fish to catch!!! Like all my fishing,done on my own terms in my own way!!! Works for me !!! Good luck in your quest!!

I dont know steve colclough but i do know russell salt and he is a facking censored who ripped us off 4 years back by selling fish from castlemere to poolhall in wolverhampton then had the nerve to have our fees off us and then dont even pay the landowner who then kicks us off the lake for not paying the lease, he still hasnt reinbursed anyone and that must be about 7 grand. he is a first class prick. If it wasnt for his head injuries i think i would of whaled him on his door step when we confronted him, which he denied all knowledge about.

if im not mistaken hav'nt you already had it tim and what are your reasons to be angling for it again???

3 Scale. I don't know you either dude but if you want to make direct contact with me then ask Paul (Selman) for my number and I will talk /meet. I'm assuming by your posts that you are in the Castlemere syndicate now and dependent on how interested you are I still have loads of slides / photies of it under renovation which would help you with your fishing as it clearly defines the features of the pool (no f'in water in it). That goes out to all of the Castlemere syndicate present members. If you want to run through the early history then get in touch and i'll sort it. I might even buy the drinks for the night if you don't let SOS know where we are !

Serious. If you want to see it then get in touch. Its usefull if your sticking with it as you can gain more info in a flick through the slide show than you ever will with a day on a plumb line.

Steve

Steve, a couple of things to facts to start with, my electric and everyones on my estate was off last night, just ask higgsy if anyone cares too, he lives just below me, i wrote the above just before i went to bed, i had a considerable post done but could not send it because of my router, after so long my battery went in my laptop, i tried to save it but i lost it, it was late so i thought sod it.
i'm surprised at you steve thinking i'd bottled it!

The facts are that castlemere netted our lake and stole our fish, fish that wer'nt theirs to take.
An angler who was on your week at birch grove stole a common and also put it in castlemere.
You were the figure head for the said castlemere.
I have taken the trouble of speaking to nik today, steve, quess
what, and im trying not to laugh, HE has never heard of these paddies either, well fancy that! Seeing as he was involved in the setting up of the syndicate!To be honest he was not to charitable towards you, car'nt think why. Another point steve, you mock me for my ignorance of the alleged paddies, when your then partner in said syndicate, nik also has never heard of them,but ask me to be lenient with you over the section 30 papers.Remember none of the alleged paddies nicked any fish.
No paddy came and told me not to fish lawton.
There was no need for me to know the alleged paddies, i'm sure, being the nice guy that you claim, you would have told me anything i needed to know about them, strange that you did'nt tell your oppo, nik at the time. Also steve what about this fiasco:
#340093 - 01/28/09 09:01 AM Re: lawton hall [Re: Steve Hurst]
Lieutenant_norun Offline We may as well credit Mr Colclough for all his accomplishments;
Outstanding FW Member
***** The ILLEGAL syndicate he set up on Knighton in the early 90's,
which when it was finally settled in court cost the farmer he
Registered: 03/20/01 tapped up over £40k in court costs & fines as he held no access
Posts: 455 or fishing rights to the water !!
Loc: Back in the Shire
Naturally Mr Colclough had sailed off into the sunset by this time to
wreak his magic elsewhere . .
_________________________
release the Kraken . . .
Top Reply Quote Quick Reply Quick Quote Notify Email Post


as you can see i did not post this, but you get the drift.

Having signed on to this forum tonight someone i know as kez, who also frequents said forum has said that you had nothing to do with the netting, but does not say anymore, which is disapointing, seeing as i have respect for the said "kez" i am forced to reanalyse things. Also i have spoke to andy loring, who agrees that the netting was indeed in 1995, he caught the "long 22" at 30lbs plus in that year, he also got married that year,so the year is deffo 1995, but what he did say was, that, the last payment he made to fish lawton that year was to beefy (Dave Heath) which obviously strengthens your arguement that you wer'nt involved in castlemere and as such the netting of lawton in that year 1995.I have pm'd kez to ask what he knows, also if anyone else has any imformation with regard to steve's involvement or not of said netting please bring forth the information, nice to see your silver tonging 3 scale steve, i've had words with him too so you should get on well together.

Professor Plum in the library with the lead pipe !!!

Had words ha ha ha. Yeah like i told you b4 your a hippercrit you are fishing for a stolen fish now.
End of arguement......

so at worse me owd flerter, that makes me the same as you,seeing as you previously fished for stolen fish also, therefore whatever i am, thus so are you. keep taking the tablets matey.

Yeah but im not the one trying to take the morale high ground here am i??
Listen to be honest with you i think me and you have both had the same thing happen to us, and from what i can gather steve colclough had nothing to do with it both times.
And i dont even know the guy.
My only arguement earlier on this thread was you were still slating castlemere as it is now and its changed owner and stock since 1995 and we are trying to get rid of all the crap that goes with lake.

couple of posts lost on me from dirt devil there?? bit to cryptic fella. as for lawton all i know is it was 91/92 when i fished there and paid my 160 to steve, after that and who did what with whom and where is beyond me as i was back on the the port, wont deny as a youngster 21 or so it was a bit hard for me and it wasnt for a few years thast i returned to try again. what i do remember is a long conversation with tim paisley regards birch and how he wanted to ban everyone from stoke fishing there because of alledged fish moving by certain strokies, both higgsy and bassy suffered as i think they gort there week taken from them because they are stoke lads.
As i wasnt present to that or the netting of lawton i dont know the facts of the 93,94,95 years. As for the dale i make no appolagy for fishing for it again. as its 5 years and almost 10lb bigger than my last capture. 40 lb commons are thin on the ground round hear havnt you heard! yes i will be the first to admit its a lot to do with the weight etc but also the fish is a stunner and is the largest common available to me at present. the fact that the fish might not be around for long is another factor ,you canyt turn the clock back. i suppose if i wanted it bad enuf i could always fish tatton in the close season, in the duckery at night for the two 40s in there like some have done.. As far as i know there are only 5 40lb proper commons round here tatton x 2, cole, crose and the dale.. if im missing any then please feel free to spill..

I think YOU are trying to take the moral high ground now ? fair play mate, heres to a fresh start to castlemere or whatever its called now scobe, and i'll keep fishing for a stolen fish.

Tim you mentioned Tatton that will start a flood of posts now LOL !!!!

cana keep the captures/captors quite for ever...

Ouch !!!!! This might get messy LOL !!!

so ill go and stick another hook in it JUST because its 10lb bigger?,you cant turn the clock back NO and yes there is plenty more fish about to be wanting to nail one thats all ready in the album pal...

whats your problem? do i comment on your angling? venue or aproach etc.. if you no of another accsesable 4olb common round here then please share.if not ill keep minding my own buisness..

and carry on jumping in pegs behind the last captures of the common..... smart angling crack on

been an acre in size doubt if anyone could fish there without dropping in a swim after someone. As for following rob in think youll find i havnt fished thast swim at all, mafter a good look in the boat found a pukka spot and fished it from a swim further down the bank. whats the problem with that, ive no idea where rob had it from and as he had fish from 3 or 4 swims then anyone whos fished there must have followed him in at some point, stick to facts not rumour fella, or better still come down and have a dabble, ill try not to fish a swim you do..

not in any of my posts did i say a name? dont do names timmy.now leave it out im laughin so bad my sides are spilting

???????????? oh well , back to the origional script , lets hope lawton continues to be run as a syndicate and the problems and issues of the past are firmly left, in the past.

SOS. You are uppity. It was hardly a dig at you losing your post. Just one of those things that everyone probably smirked about. By the way do you write "silver tongues" as a replacement for intelligent.

I;ll come back later. Got go work. So Nik was another one who didn't know what was going on his own doorstep and a lake which bought him most of his income then. If he dosen't remember the Paddies then did you bother to ask why he and Rocket Ron got involved in deciding who had passes etc and helping us sort it all out ?

On the subject of Knighton. I was waitin until this Lawton stuff was done before moving on to that because the idiot who posted that is getting a reply, with the facts, on that one. I guess he's another who has just bleated and paid someone else to sort his fishing out. Total fool, living on hearsay and completely and utterly not understanding anything about the facts of what happened. I'll tell you later.

SOS. For what its worth I just lost most of a post because I scrolled back a page to check something you wrote. Happens to the best of us mate.

I'm sorry guys but i've not got alot of further time to debate this. SOS will say how convenient but its nothing to do with that. I said last week i'd give it a couple of days and here I am a week later still tapping away and the missus is starting to ask questions. I came on here to try and remove my name from the issue of the 95 Lawton netting and clear up some of the Castlemere myths. I'm sure its been an interesting little soap opera for the unimformed and hopefully, put a few new lines of thought into what actually did happen. I accept that SOS isn't having it and i'm hardly likely to convince him. I'm sat here asking myself why the hell am I doing this. For pities sake I don't have a remote angling interest anymore.

I do need to make a post regarding Knighton and will separately but regarding this one, I think thats me done.

I wasn't involved in the netting but if SOS or some of the others find that possible scenario too larger burden to accept then so be it. Without a means of time travel I guess it remains one of lifes unsolved mysteries.

A quickie on the Paddies as SOS now wants to carry out a blow by blow account of that section of the issue. I'm sorry SOS but if Nik dosen't remember then i'll take that one on the nose as the bad guy. The paperwork may still exist. It possibly may not. When I resigned I didn't ask for copies of everything just in case I was involved in such a detailed examination some 19 years on. Lets leave it with the following more romantic ending. I'd rather be remembered this way..............

On a wet and cold afternoon, sometime back in 91, Cowboy Steve, 5'6" and 12 stone wet through ventured to the other side of town and down to the local lake where a bunch of big burley anglers were fishing sheriffed by mad Ron, the local hatchet man. If you dont all give me £160 i'll knock out the damn lot of you said Steve. That includes you Ron, said the man from across town. Quaking in their boots, everyone to a man paid up and nobody said boo. You'd better look after this place Steve demanded of Ron, or hell will come down upon you. So Ron agreed to continue to be Sherriff and Cowboy Steve rode of into the sunset (thanks for the phrase Liutenant Moron) never to be seen again (until the next year when he did it all again).

I prefer the (true) Paddy story really. I never was the heroic type.

Final words for SOS as he wont be able to sleep until he nails me for something. To save you digging further mate..

I was fishing Cuttle Mill once and lost two good twenties in just under an hour because they came off from the mandatory barbless hook. In anger I sneaked on a crimped barbed one and landed the next fish but unfotunately it was just as the hook checker was passing. Upon inspection of my rig I was chucked of the lake for the rest of the session. I haven't dared show my face in Tamworth since.

I was once fishing a lake (it was probably Knighton) and nobody was around and it was midweek so I stuck a third rod out.

Four years ago I got a 6 month ban for doing 128 mph on the A50 on my R1. Hah, the idiots. If they had caught me an hour earlier on the M1 i'd hit 182!!

I don't think theres much else to find mate.

Cheers all. To borrow a phrase, "its been emotional"

To the good Luitenant Moron. You bought up the issue of Knighton mate. I first fished the place in 1965 and continued to fish it through the rest of my angling life. I think Stoke City and District had it in 65 and still did when I packed it in. Maybe they still do today. I caught my first double there and then my first 20. I think that was about 76. The problem with Knighton was it was always days only so I tended to fish from crack of dawn Saturday to Saturday lunch and the occasional evening in the week. It was also a mile walk from the car park so I think that put some folk off. The carp rarely fed in the day and so you caught em at dusk or dawn. Just as SOS is passionate about Lawton, i felt the same about Knighton. It felt like my water. Fortunately few knew of it and so there was about a dozen (carp lads) who had it to themselves.

Sometime at the back of the eighties I turned up to fish and one side was fenced of saying "private no fishing". Nobody was on that bank through their fear of the barbed wire fence and the threatening sign. I asked the other anglers if they knew owt about it and they were blissfully ignorant of what was going on.
So being me, I decided to find out and went around the local farms until I could find someone who could talk to me.

Now firstly Luitenant, heres a bit of knowledge on how it all worked out there (although i'm sure you already know this because why would you make such an imposing post if you knew F all about the facts !)

Knighton was built as a top up facility for the nearby Shroppie Union canal (a sort of header tank if you like). Its level was drastically reduced some time in the late 60's due to problems with the dam (admit not totally sure of timeframe). Stoke City and District had always paid the farmer on the West bank for the fishing rights (lets refer to him as farmer West). I know they paid him a paltry sum because i used to attend the committee meetings as I wanted to keep a check on my haven. During the eighties there was a boom in carping and people started to pay big money for the rights to fish for them. Pool owners cottoned on to it and rents went up. The farmer on the East bank (lets call him farmer East) got wind of this and having never really been bothered about the fact that his land bordered the reservoir, suddenly saw pound notes. To complicate the issue I believe Farmer West leased his land from Severn Trent who also owned the Reservoir. I'm was not bothered about such geography but it did eventually settle legal wrangling after East met West in a courtroom bun fight.

So back to me. Having collared farmer East I ask him why he has fenced of the East bank and put up a private fishing sign. He tells me that until he gets a cut of the money he's not letting anyone on it. So, being me I ask him for better detail and he shows me his land registry papers which clearly define he has the land at the East bank so I dont need a second blink. Can the club on your bank night fish I ask. Yes he says. Don't talk to another sole I said. I shook his hand on an offer and billys your aunt. I've just secured night fishing for the first time ever on Knighton. I get together a syndicate to cover the money which I think was £3k and away we went. We absolutely caned it at night and if was as good as it could get.

However, and meanwhile, farmer West was furious because Stoke offered less money as they had lost half the reservoir and I think East boasted about the fact he was getting six times more dosh for his bit. The issue is this my fine little Lietenant friend. Farmer East was going to do his bit, let the fishing including nights, to the first one who made him a good offer. If it hadn't have been me it would have been someone alse and i'd have had the misery of watching others delight in bivvying up as I walked the long mile back my motor. I was not going to let that happen. I did what I always do. Got involved and sorted it out. When you do that you are not beheld to others.

Yes it ended up in court and it took several years and West actually won. I believe the reason he won was that East did possibly have the rights to fish from his bank but the clever little issue is the water level. Remember I told you the level dropped. The court ruled that the basin of the reservoir was Severn Trents and as the water had receded so far away from the East bank we were actually fishing from within the basin (not Easts bank) and so West, who had the water authority on his side, won. The result was a disbanding of the syndicate and we were all banned from ever being a member of Stoke City and district again. But guess what. You got your cards over the counter at any tackle shop so we all purchased one in different names and continued to fish again on days. Nobody knew because the only person who ever asked to see anyone elses card had been me. Simples innit.

The farmers would have had the row anyway. It was an issue in the waiting. It could have been anyone else who had those glorious few seasons of night fishing Knighton and it would have crippled me to see a bunch of new guys walk in and cane "our" water. I didn't cause the row to happen dude. I didn't cause the situation. I just merely took an opportunity to secure some fishing for me and a bunch of others who loved the place.

I'm not debating it further Luitenant. Goodbye

Four years ago I got a 6 month ban for doing 128 mph on the A50 on my R1. Hah, the idiots. If they had caught me an hour earlier on the M1 i'd hit 182!!

impressive steve! only been able to take my nissan skyline up to 150mph, ran out of road, A500 so respect for that.

As for using a 3rd rod, i'm shocked! Always knew you were a bad un.

If you ever need a lift to the airport steve, to fly out to saudi, or indeed anywhere, then give us a shout, it'll be my pleasure.I'll even carry your cases!

"silver tongued" for intelligence, i don't know, you did have a few spelling mistakes!(but maybe i did, obviously they were typo's.)

Steve, no run is no mug either.

Its been interesting steve, if someone like salty comes on here to exonerate you then i may listen, you've had only one person to support you, and he did'nt elaborate so we will have to see.

Take care steve.

Do you still live near a certain church, in the Y of a road?
nice little white cottage steve. Maybe you've moved?

Just for the record, it was great night fishing on knighton, in 1990 and 1991 just the winter mind, steve that was one syndicate that you were involved with that was good,while it lasted, loved the place, i have been trying to get back in for the last 15 years or so but i think my association with you has cost me dear again, oh well, i will keep on trying to get in. TTFN.

SOS. I read your last post as being a little more accomodating and I certainly hope I read it as that. I'm truly sorry that I haven't been able to convince you fully. I have spoken to Salty but only briefly. Its common knowledge he buggered off with my ex missus and the two of us did have a slight "disagreement" about that so its goes without saying that we ain't blood brothers. However i did call him last week because I wanted to see what he would tell me about the netting. He's off work at the moment and has no access to a computer but he did say he would check this forum out when he got back to work on Monday next week. Whether he will come on and debate it like I have heaven knows.

If you do come on Russ, please explain to SOS that I was not in it in 95 !!

I really can't offer much more than I've already put. Your passionate about Lawton is there for all to see and impressive to say the least.

Its a funny old game fishing. I used to fish F and G before it was a synicate and became know as the Mangrove. One day I could no longer get my usual ticket and I found out some big boys had taken it on as a closed shop. I think that was a defining moment and made me realise that you had to look after your own interests.

I'll wish you all the best in your fishing and whatever you do. I have enjoyed the exchanges and I hope I come out of the forum with a little more credit than I appeared to have coming in. I'll have a nose in next week just to see if Russ takes up the challenge.

Just waiting for the missus to get in then its off to the Bullgog Bash to abuse my body for the weekend.

See ya dudes and respect to all.

Oh how i hope russell comes on and trys to defend himself.
He is banged to rights with what he did.
Please come on and give us a chuckle.
Perhaps promise everyones money back again.

Yes i would like to here what salty has to say myself, and even better i would love to here off beefy!

sos, have you read my pm (s) you got my number ring me anytime.
hope I put you in the picture m8. beef and salt should be brought to justice. Steve when you took over lawton you never said our fishing was under threat.I am John who fished with Gary Mitchell

Kez (John). I appreciate your support mate. Just got back from the Bulldog so a bit road and other stuff weary. I'm on here trying to sort this because I do care about what people think. At the end of the day someone told me about the debate and if they hadn't then I would be none the wiser and I guess would never have been here. It does hurt that my name is blacked over something that is an obvious issue to the lads who love Lawton and it's frustrating that they think I was somehow involved in having their fishing away. I sincerely hope that Lawton has recovered and that the guys fishing it get some closure over what happened. I hope Russ (Salty) takes up the challenge and tells his side of the story. I can't add anything more than what i've said. Certainly when I was involved with Lawton it was not even a distant thought that it could one day be used to stock Castlmere. The planned Castlemere stock level had already been achieved before my tenure with Lawton and it never even entered my mind that somehow the fish might somehow migrate.

As a footnote, and you guys seem to be bickering about such stuff anyway, I doubt anyone on a carp water today is fishing for a pool of fish that were all legally moved. Paul (Selman) posed a few questions to me about the fish we originally purchased for Castlemere which in my mind were totally above board. He asked about section 30's and stuff and hell, to be honest, I now don't know. I saw invoices, people from clubs we bought fish off helping us net them out, cheques exchanging hands. It all seemed cast iron to me. Maybe an expert could point out it wasn't but I can only argue that it appeared all good to me and thats why I openly wrote about it. I am sure that there was a damn sight more legality about those first Castlemere stock fish than many other fishery owners can claim. Either way, Paul, I hope we are cool and good luck with your business and this site.

I would like to sign off with the following statement.

Firstly, I apologise to Paul Selman. When I first read the posts on here I ripped into him because I felt I was being so blatently slandered. Paul posed a few questions that made me reconsider my position and as to why you guys were taking up your relative stances. He got me to think as to why the association with Castlemere was the burning issue and I calmed down and decided to debate the issue over the forum. I'm glad now that I pursued it that way and i'm sure some will have seen it as a proper debate whilst some simply enjoyed the soap opera.

I know the jury remains out with SOS and so Dave, it's with you mate. I can't offer you anything more and the offer of lunch is still there. I'm semi retired now and don't intend going back out to the middle east so your kind invitation to take me to the airport is unlikely to be taken up and thus we won't meet up via that avenue!!

I respect your passion but not your stubborness (spelling !!)

All the sincere best to all. Steve C.