Pete if I were to use an enzyme in a given bait and that I could get the pH right in the rolled bait and choose an enzyme with say a 20 degrees C optimum why couldnt it be used to break 'certain' proteins down within my bait yeilding free aminos prior to boiling?

Enzymes have a remarkable reaction rate with their specific substrates and even a short 'incubation' period of say 15 minutes prior to boiling to denature said enzyme should still give some enzymatic degradation I would think??

As you know theres lots of enzymes to choose from and theres often 'more than one way to skin a cat'....

I would be looking at breaking proteins down that were not the binder eg albumin.Could this not be done

i dont know what to make of all this lot,pete b does seem to know his stuff and even the bait buff on the other site seemed to start agreeing with him in the end.its all abit above my pay grade.but i know one way to find out if it works or not and if it works i dont care if the emzymes are active or disabled.

Can't believe I sat and read all 22 pages of that thread.
I think the best way to describe most of the mosters on it is that old Chinese proverb about it being better to let people think you are a fool rather than open your mouth and prove that you are a fool.

It's nothing more than a witchunt and fishing expedition so I'd like to see the testing the copycat companies slinging enzyme baits out left right and centre have undertaken. They also need to provide detailed descriptions of their bait's composition so everyone else can fill their pockets on someone elses hard work, which is exactly what that thread was aimed at achieving......somehow I don't think it's going to happen...

Go get 'em Pete

To be honest Pete B's attitude stinks.
He was asked to provide proof with SCIENTIFIC FACT that his bait, correction, Enzyme use, is not going to cause harm to fish.

This post is just another attempt to make himself appear Big.
The original discussion which I got involved in with another member on there was conducted in just about an orderly manner and both made valuable points.
Yet Pete B avoided the topic as much as possible about possible dangers. He was asked to provide evidence of safety regarding his Baits. Yet at no point has he done so.
All Pete B did on the original topic on enzymes was to insult and slag off other members who were asking about the safety of his baits. All that was wanted was long term proof of safety.
In fact the link that Pete B has put up, the topic that he linked to has been locked and moved, because the post was deemed troublemaking!



Regarding the above statement, I think that we take it for granted they are not harmful.

Indeed I believe Mr. Selman will back this up regarding the first use of Fishmeals dosed with High Levels of Salmon Oils. It has been found that after a period of continued use that the Salmon Oil and other Oils contained in the baits contributed to a possible/probable cause of Fish deaths where Oils that are not usual Dietary items for Carp were being ingested in baits. Salmon Oil is not something that Carp eat in their usual environment, and as a result it created problems that are far reaching.

Now I'm not saying that it was just because of Fish Oils, but the excess use may have done irreparable damage.

What about possible overuse of enzymes? It happens with other ingredients that may cause damage (Betaine is a possibility in excess).

Sorry, I still want proof of safety of the Enzymes used in the bait, LONG TERM PROOF, not just those in a Tank or small pond, but SCIENTIFIC FACTS.

"why couldnt it be used to break 'certain' proteins down within my bait yeilding free aminos prior to boiling?"

To get maximum attraction you need to address FLAA... Alternatively, add a whole host of aminos to a flour base....

Enzymes are reaction/bond specific... yes, it is possible to get ones to do what you have said, but I can think of no way you will retain a firm bait... look at the bonds.... I do not know of many who understand to this depth though... you are bordering on the absolute genius...

There are thousands of enzymes, both natural and novel...

"Indeed I believe Mr. Selman will back this up regarding the first use of Fishmeals dosed with High Levels of Salmon Oils. It has been found that after a period of continued use that the Salmon Oil and other Oils contained in the baits contributed to a possible/probable cause of Fish deaths"

I'll leave Paul to deal with Charlie Daly's wayward theories...

Nick, calm down and look at what you've posted.... it is nonsense...

"I think that we take it for granted they are not harmful"

WHY?? you obviously understand so much about bait, its ingredients and its effects... research Robin Red from the 80's... then tell me all ingredients are safe...

"It is better to be thought a fool than open your mouth and prove it Nick... "

I do not have anything to prove in terms of carp fishing... it's a hobby and bait is my interest... when I am accused by you and a few others of trying to kill carp I get upset, especially when those accusing me have no knowledge of what they are on about...

If your enzymes do a job after boiling why do you say that you couldnt attain a similar end result prior to boiling?

I am no genius as you quite rightly(sarcasm is the lowest form of wit)point out but I still cannot see why the attraction properties of a bait cannot be enhanced prior to boiling using enzymatic degradation of specific ingredients.Does your bait completely break down to obtain the desired effect no it doesnt so why couldnt a firmish partly digested bait not be obtained prior to boiling?

You'll have to spell it out more clearly as I am a bit thick...

"In fact the link that Pete B has put up, the topic that he linked to has been locked and moved, because the post was deemed troublemaking"

Guess what... it's magically re-appeared...

It was not meant to be sarcastic saggy, or aimed at you... it was meant in terms that anyone with that in depth knowledge is VERY good....

You possibly can achieve what you say, but the resultant bait would be soft... the bonds you break would make it so...

Nick... before Paul gets to read this... can you show me the scientific evidence that Salmon oil poses a problem for fish as you have stated please....

Rumours, lies, fishing expeditions and just plain ignorance abound... and I do NOT include saggy in this....

Load of fuss over nothing, is just one of a number of good baits on the market that will catch fish. Not by any chance trying to keep enzyme the topic of conversation Pete to generate a bit more interest