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#240777 - 12/12/04 09:10 PM PASTE OR BOILED..
tudge North West Legend Demon FW Member Registered: 05/08/04 Posts: 2207	Now that the water temperatures have dropped (up here they have anyway).. Which is prefered by you? A really good high leakage paste --- ' lightly skinned bait' or the usual boilie that is used year through with maybe higher dosages of attractors, flavours.?
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#240778 - 12/12/04 09:12 PM Re: PASTE OR BOILED..
eagle Haulin' Machine Demon FW Member Registered: 16/11/02 Posts: 3104 Loc: Strictly need to know basis	or option 3 :- hang the rods up..
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#240779 - 12/12/04 09:17 PM Re: PASTE OR BOILED..
tudge North West Legend Demon FW Member Registered: 05/08/04 Posts: 2207	On the subject of Winter fishing my little Eaglet friend... let me borrow your Winter ticket on 'that Water'..so i can catch a real Lancs forty..
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#240780 - 12/12/04 09:23 PM Re: PASTE OR BOILED..
eagle Haulin' Machine Demon FW Member Registered: 16/11/02 Posts: 3104 Loc: Strictly need to know basis	i'll be using it myself after chrimbo tudgie
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#240781 - 13/12/04 04:15 PM Re: PASTE OR BOILED..
JumpinJackFlash New FW Member Registered: 11/12/04 Posts: 13 Loc: London	Got to be boilies
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#240782 - 13/12/04 04:59 PM Re: PASTE OR BOILED..
Simondo Star FW Member Registered: 16/03/04 Posts: 1838 Loc: Cheshire	Prefer more naturals & particles but when/if I do I go for light skinned & dipped
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#240783 - 13/12/04 11:29 PM Re: PASTE OR BOILED..
Pete B Argumentative Bar Steward FW Top Poster Registered: 26/06/00 Posts: 7772 Loc: In the beautiful south... far ...	At the risk of posing a sensible reply... 'Leakage' is a totally nonsensical and irrelevant, if not, stupid term, coined by someone with half a brain.... Release of flavours/attractors has naff all to do with how 'hard' a bait feels in our environment.. ie: air... it is down to osmosis/diffusion... and that has naff all to do with the size of the particles that make up the bait.. Birdfoods for example!!!
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#240784 - 14/12/04 12:39 AM Re: PASTE OR BOILED..
THE-MANAGER Demon FW Member Registered: 03/08/04 Posts: 2859 Loc: Crewe/Nantwich	I always add a teaspoon of salt when making my own boilies as I once read that it helps with osmosis(water/flavour exchange).Is this correct?Does it do any good,or does it deter fish?
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#240785 - 15/12/04 08:18 AM Re: PASTE OR BOILED..
Saul Star FW Member Registered: 26/01/03 Posts: 1916 Loc: Edinburgh,Scotland	Boiled with a paste jacket for me in the winter , only problem is trying to use it with a balanced pop up Cheers Saul
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#240786 - 15/12/04 10:08 AM Re: PASTE OR BOILED..
Kipper Outstanding FW Member Registered: 03/02/02 Posts: 596 Loc: Chiang Mai or Swinton	Eagle, of course you will (said in a Max and Paddy tone)
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#240787 - 15/12/04 10:30 AM Re: PASTE OR BOILED..
eagle Haulin' Machine Demon FW Member Registered: 16/11/02 Posts: 3104 Loc: Strictly need to know basis	Quote: Eagle, of course you will (said in a Max and Paddy tone) Nothing like 2 new waters to relight the fire kidda (in Brian out of the magic roundabout tone)... Edited by eagle (15/12/04 10:34 AM)
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#240788 - 15/12/04 01:17 PM Re: PASTE OR BOILED..
Canty Outstanding FW Member Registered: 02/01/04 Posts: 847	Quote: Boiled with a paste jacket for me in the winter , only problem is trying to use it with a balanced pop up Cheers Saul have you tried making the paste with water it dissolves quicker.
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#240789 - 15/12/04 02:02 PM Re: PASTE OR BOILED..
Pete B Argumentative Bar Steward FW Top Poster Registered: 26/06/00 Posts: 7772 Loc: In the beautiful south... far ...	Salt/salinity differentials are one of the things that carp can detect in very small amounts, salt is also required by them to regulate water uptake... So keep on adding it... a tablespoon per Kilo of bait of sea salt is about right...
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#240790 - 15/12/04 02:17 PM Re: PASTE OR BOILED..
Canty Outstanding FW Member Registered: 02/01/04 Posts: 847	Pete if they require it how do they find it in the wild. just curious mate
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#240791 - 15/12/04 05:54 PM Re: PASTE OR BOILED..
tudge North West Legend Demon FW Member Registered: 05/08/04 Posts: 2207	Quote... 'leakage is a totally nonsensical and irrelavent, if not, stupid term, coined by someone with half a brain. The brace of twenties i caught from Smith's this afternoon were'nt to bothered whether i had half a brain or not...
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#240792 - 15/12/04 07:34 PM Re: PASTE OR BOILED..
Pete B Argumentative Bar Steward FW Top Poster Registered: 26/06/00 Posts: 7772 Loc: In the beautiful south... far ...	canty.. Salt is present almost everywhere... but carp can detect minute variations in salinity.. that is where the addition of salt can score... Tudge... Well done... I guess they felt sorry for you, my mentally challenged friend...
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#240793 - 15/12/04 07:38 PM Re: PASTE OR BOILED..
tudge North West Legend Demon FW Member Registered: 05/08/04 Posts: 2207	Cheers mate... well pleased, stunning pair of fish. First fish out for many weeks... Made a retard very happy.
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#240794 - 15/12/04 08:50 PM Re: PASTE OR BOILED..
eagle Haulin' Machine Demon FW Member Registered: 16/11/02 Posts: 3104 Loc: Strictly need to know basis	Quote: Quote... 'leakage is a totally nonsensical and irrelavent, if not, stupid term, coined by someone with half a brain. The brace of twenties i caught from Smith's this afternoon were'nt to bothered whether i had half a brain or not... i bet boltons telephone network is a tad congested tonight,nice result mate where next fan Lodge ?
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#240795 - 15/12/04 08:56 PM Re: PASTE OR BOILED..
Canty Outstanding FW Member Registered: 02/01/04 Posts: 847	well done tudge,nice result
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#240796 - 16/12/04 02:47 PM Re: PASTE OR BOILED..
top rod Outstanding FW Member Registered: 21/10/04 Posts: 636 Loc: on the lookout.	i bet you cant get back in that swim for a few weeks, the joeys will be lined up to the top of smiths road, nice result mate, PROPER NORTHERN ENGLISH CARP!
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#240797 - 16/12/04 03:22 PM Re: PASTE OR BOILED..
Klewless Enthusiastic FW Member Registered: 07/10/02 Posts: 382 Loc: Yateley (Hub of the known Univ...	How can you claim that the texture of a bait doesnt have an effect on the baits ability to allow the inherent attractors to leak / leach / dissolve.. or how ever else you wish to describe it... or suggest the baits texture doesnt have an effect of a baits effectiveness... or perhaps that your high brow definition of how the flavour leaks out is incorrect.... (OSMOSIS AFTER IS THE MOVEMENT OF WATER MOLECULES....DEERRRRR - WHATS THAT GOT TO DO WITH FLAVOURS!!!) More mileage in 'keeping it real' Anyway - neither does your post give any clue as to why EA flavours are better in a quick bite scenario - isnt that a water solubility aspect.... or that inclusion of water soluble ingredients like sugar or salt or any soluble ingredients would probably assist in the leakage of these attractors..... or the coarsness of teh ingredients.... LOL You really are a phenominan Peter!
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#240798 - 16/12/04 05:09 PM Re: PASTE OR BOILED..
ESXcarper Enthusiastic FW Member Registered: 26/10/04 Posts: 302 Loc: Essex	Quote: (OSMOSIS AFTER IS THE MOVEMENT OF WATER MOLECULES....DEERRRRR - WHATS THAT GOT TO DO WITH FLAVOURS!!!) Its a tad more complicated than that, and IMO not relevant here!!!
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#240799 - 16/12/04 05:23 PM Re: PASTE OR BOILED..
DryMatt Outstanding FW Member Registered: 05/11/00 Posts: 536 Loc: Straight outta Bolton	Think he's trying to talk about concentration gradients...? Regardless, paste dependant on makeup should provide a larger surface area for the diffusion ( believe thats the correct terminology but couldn't really give a rats left testicle ) seeing it's hopefully breaking down far quicker than a skinned boilie would. A coarse texture woould be of benefit but would not release as much or as steadily as paste. As for 'Mr.T's' ( crazzy foo! ) earlier question your 'cat meat and groundbait special' shhh seems to be doing the doo! ooh yeassh and yep the amassed hoardes of the joey massiv are already planning a swoop. Unfortunately this joey and the older version ( owd skoo' smifts/burble angler now minus tash ) will not be among them instead we'll be flinging dead fish to joe bike .. after being given the nod on the new location of 'battleship'
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#240800 - 16/12/04 07:16 PM Re: PASTE OR BOILED..
Pete B Argumentative Bar Steward FW Top Poster Registered: 26/06/00 Posts: 7772 Loc: In the beautiful south... far ...	" neither does your post give any clue as to why EA flavours are better in a quick bite scenario" That is, of course, if you believe that in the first place... which personally, I don't!! The coarseness of a bait will not effect the rate of attractor loss.. it is governed by the rate at which the bait takes on water..Some coarse ingredients will alter it, but only to a vey minor degree. The addition of water based/soluble attractors will alter the short term dispersion rate, but that's about it.... The best you can hope for is a compromise of a bait hard enough to stand casting/nuisance fish and one that goes soft quickly in the water, because if it does that.. the attractors are sure as hell getting out... If you reel in a bait in the morning and it's still nearly as hard as when you cast it out.. it is not doing very well on this attractor leakage terminology... By the way.. it's phenomenon Cleuless...
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#240801 - 16/12/04 07:47 PM Re: PASTE OR BOILED..
tudge North West Legend Demon FW Member Registered: 05/08/04 Posts: 2207	Thank you very much Matthew.. for letting the cat out of the bag The Miaow mix was not going to be unleashed to the public until next Spring ,after the Winter field testing was over. Anyway Elton tackle said they would stock it, if it did the buisness in the trials and would be retailing for about £10.00 for 10 kilo rolled..... Pilchard and Tuna , along with the Anchovy and sardine will be available to other field testers if they are willing to give back plenty of input. Thanks.
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#240802 - 16/12/04 08:51 PM Re: PASTE OR BOILED..
Canty Outstanding FW Member Registered: 02/01/04 Posts: 847	that was catching fish 20 yrs ago.beef and liver worked the best,ground down adding wheat germ/gluten.the meeow mix what comes around goes around "psst,add a little soy source"
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#240803 - 16/12/04 10:07 PM Re: PASTE OR BOILED..
Pete B Argumentative Bar Steward FW Top Poster Registered: 26/06/00 Posts: 7772 Loc: In the beautiful south... far ...	So Clueless... Are you going to educate me on osmosis and flavour diffusion.... or actually admit I am right for once??? Osmosis/diffusion are closely linked... 'O' level Chemistry and all that... I am NOT a chemist, what I glean on baits is hard earned.. I do not produce or sell baits.. and have no interest in that.. I am, however, interested in the subject, and have a good grounding in the way carp detect 'bait' and what is attractive to a carp..... By your comments you have been taken in by the commercial bullsh*t that surrounds bait.... EA in winter.. Birdfoods = high leakage... whatever that is.... Take a step back, look at what has been said and think about whether it makes sense....
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#240804 - 16/12/04 10:26 PM Re: PASTE OR BOILED..
Kevin Babij FW Top Poster Registered: 15/06/00 Posts: 6004 Loc: Scunny	Quote: that was catching fish 20 yrs ago.beef and liver worked the best,ground down adding wheat germ/gluten.the meeow mix what comes around goes around "psst,add a little soy source" Anyone for Friskies with black bean sauce??? Perfer Eukanuba / Iam`s or Pets at Home kitten feed these days in my baits.Higher chicken content Happy grinding.... Salt - chicken powder/sea salt Flavours - bin them. Quote: The best you can hope for is a compromise of a bait hard enough to stand casting/nuisance fish and one that goes soft quickly in the water, because if it does that.. the attractors are sure as hell getting out... If you reel in a bait in the morning and it's still nearly as hard as when you cast it out.. it is not doing very well on this attractor leakage terminology So don`t boil the arse out of them in the first place. One minute boil now and well glugged,they`ll split in a catty on occasions never mind throwing sticks. Save the albumin hardened baits for the hookbaits only. Edited by Kevin Babij (16/12/04 10:33 PM)
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#240805 - 16/12/04 10:33 PM Re: PASTE OR BOILED..
Canty Outstanding FW Member Registered: 02/01/04 Posts: 847	i wonder how many bait companies are grinding it big time and selling it for 10 quid a kg
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#240806 - 16/12/04 10:40 PM Re: PASTE OR BOILED..
Pete B Argumentative Bar Steward FW Top Poster Registered: 26/06/00 Posts: 7772 Loc: In the beautiful south... far ...	"Flavours - bin them" Best bait advice given... especially... EA ones... PG I can live with.. it has other properties.. solvents are the key to this... and just look at how many successful 'flavours' have the same or very similar pH... I've lost count of the times I've said this on here... you can tell whether a flavour is effective by it's solvent/pH... last reference to this subject.. I promise...
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#240807 - 16/12/04 11:27 PM Re: PASTE OR BOILED..
THE-MANAGER Demon FW Member Registered: 03/08/04 Posts: 2859 Loc: Crewe/Nantwich	I presume that birdfoods have a quicker leakage of "attractors" due to their texture being courser than milk protein or fishmeal baits.with the outside of the boilie being rougher,this gives more surface area for attractors to escape from...having said that,I finely grind most of my birdfood ingrediants,and [censored] the baits with a boilie needle several times if I think I need a quicker release of attractors. Bear in mind that it is not just flavours that catch fish, but the bait mix should be attractive in it's own right,eg;milk proteins and certain birdfoods,and fishmeals. I see that no one has mentioned steaming their balls ,but I believe Mitz does or has done. Any thoughts on this? Thinking back,I believe that the only reason for boiling paste baits (boilies) was to give them a HARD SKIN ONLY,to deter nuisance fish.Maybe it's time to go back to basics and return to trout pellet paste, or sausage meat paste..is purina still available?
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#240808 - 17/12/04 01:13 AM Re: PASTE OR BOILED..
Dazzle Resident Pyromaniac FW Top Poster Registered: 26/05/03 Posts: 4245 Loc: Ward 10	Quote: How can you claim that the texture of a bait doesnt have an effect on the baits ability to allow the inherent attractors to leak / leach / dissolve Jesus, you really do spout some old TRIPE , Edited by Dazzle (17/12/04 08:43 AM)
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#240809 - 19/12/04 12:02 AM Re: PASTE OR BOILED..
the edge Demon FW Member Registered: 31/10/03 Posts: 1971 Loc: destination......fen	nice 'result' tony well done m8. as for your topic i go for my exclusive anhililater mix boilees. and SOMETIMES A PASTE JACKET OF THE SAME MIX as well. te
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#240810 - 22/12/04 02:56 PM Re: PASTE OR BOILED..
Klewless Enthusiastic FW Member Registered: 07/10/02 Posts: 382 Loc: Yateley (Hub of the known Univ...	I stand by my original post.... i was honestly questioning the logic in the post - i still stand by the logic of my post...... sorry Pete... we love u really....
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