Butt Banger, I know what Kacey means.... I have used sardine/anchovy as well as Provimi with basiclly the rest of the ingredients being the same. I have to say, the bait made with the sardine/anchovy tasted a lot better than the one with the provimi. It may taste better to us but I'm not sure Mr Carp would recognise the same differences. Maybe they do?

Like the bloodmeal tip for firmer bait by the way!!

Mark,
I would also be interested to know what egg albumin does to a bait...... Keep it simple though please!!!!

Hi Dan,

Egg albumin in hookbaits is not a problem because the fish don't get to eat it. The attractors are locked in a bit more in a bait made with eggs so you may want to think about increasing them slightly in your hookers.

Egg albumin does not ruin the protein content the fish will pick up on the food signal but will not be able to digest it. There will be a paper on this shortly but as it hasn't been published yet I don't want to upset anybody by saying any more at the moment.

There are many things we can use to re create the gelling effect of eggs, you will have to work out the combination which produces the desired skin on your bait as i have found that it is not as simple as just replacing the egg albumin with one product. In fact it took me all winter to arrive at a solution which works for me.

I am also a big fan of Krill in bait, quite apart from it's nutritional and texture / taste enhancing qualities it is also a very effective pH buffer in fact I would say that that is probably one of it's greatest attributes in relation to it's inclusion in a carp bait.

There has been a fair bit of discussion on taste on here and i think it is possible to get very confused on this Kevin Haddocks once said something like don't ever get Human taste confused with that of a Carp and I agree. My own bait smells gorgeous take a bite and it tastes gorgeous until the enzymes attack the protein on your tongue and it tastes like [censored]. The fish eat it with gusto though as they do bloodworm and aquatic snails etc. all of which would seem fairly unpalatable to the average english carper (the french lads could probably manage it with a dash of garlic).

let the fish / result determine the conclusion on atractiveness I personally think that the combination of certain fishmeals effectiveness has more to do with an improved AA profile and fish being unable to identify an element of the base mix it has associated with danger in the past.

Cheers

Mark

Processed Soya oil does diddly squat mate, just a lipid source... 5% Soya meal...
Taste... whose? yours?? how much silt do you eat guys?? this is totally irrelevant....You are comparing a Carp with a human.. can you detect a dissolved substance at 1:100000... thought not.... therefore, in this respect a carp is more advanced...
'Taste' as we think of it has no place in carp baits.......

BB, have sent PM...cheers Dan

sorry couldn`t disagree more with you on that one pete B!
milk protein baits have good AA profiles and contain many beneficial vitamins and minerals to carp but they are absolutely bland in taste mostly and if you dont put taste enhancers, sweeteners etc with them to liven up the taste you wont catch much at all on them to bitter for mr cypry me thinks!!!!
there are obviously many additives that taste good to carp but can be vile to our taste buds, but carp take a chance every time they feed on anglers baits! why is this because in my opinion they enjoy a food source that is alien to their enviroment that TASTES totally different to anything they can source naturally,and they take a chance on capture everytime they do it!!!!!!!!!

Read you post again Kacey1... you contradict yourself!!

"milk protein baits have good AA profiles and contain many beneficial vitamins and minerals to carp but they are absolutely bland in taste mostly and if you dont put taste enhancers, sweeteners etc with them to liven up the taste you wont catch much at all on them to bitter for mr cypry me thinks!!!! "
Bland baits aren't bitter.. bland is bland mate.... Milks have an amino profile, but how much a carp can utilise it is up for discussion.. which milks?? have you looked at first limiting amino?? does the free release of aminos induce feeding?? if so, which aminos and ae they released from the milk you are using??
You are confusing taste with attraction.. many of these additives 'attract' carp, but because of a signal given out, be that pH or whatever.. and that includes 'sweeteners'
As an aside.. ever 'tasted' black silt... carp feed in it, and they take lots into their mouths.. if they relied on 'taste' as we know it, don't you think they would chuck up???
Interesting discussion mate...

well firstly pete i think you will find that hydrolysis in milk proteins causes them to taste bitter via peptides and individually these milk proteins ie:caseins,lactalbumin,whey proteins etc
are bland in taste so me thinks i haven`t contradicted me self at all
i wasn`t refering to a milk protein bait i was using just milk protein baits in general!!!
there is no evidence to my knowledge that carp can`t taste the difference between capelin meal from sardine and anchovy meal or any other fishmeal?!!
so it is my opinion that to incorporate different fishmeals into a basemix will improve the overall TASTE of a bait as well as the AA profile which in my mind helps to keep carp eating my baits....
and as you state pete carp FEED IN SILT not on it and dont actually digest it intentionally
ive dropped plenty of sausage rolls on the floor(nice and muddy) while fishing and picked em up and eaten them and not chucked up they have been a bit gritty but waste not want not

Kacey if you split your fish meals say 50/50 it does not follow that you will improve your bait. If one of the fish meals is more digestable than the other you may as well go 100% with that meal. It isnt simply a case of getting as many aminos as you can crammed into a bait, there has to be suitable amounts of all the indispensable amino acid, or much of the protien content can't be utilised.

you guy`s seem to only look at digestability and everything has to be based on the AA profile but im telling you that carp taste the difference between fishmeals!
if they couldn`t why would some pellet feed producers add certain meals to make them more pallatable to the fish when eating?????
lets just agree to disagree